arrow for ID

JPSF · 5th January 2005, 01:59 AM

blackened bamboo shaft with no visible markings, 27" o/a, very interesting twist on the head's shaft....guessing Naga but know zero about these. Any comments will be most appreciated. Thanks

tom hyle · 5th January 2005, 02:25 AM

I don't know much for you. The flights (feathers) might be more useful for ID than the blade. They seem remarkably crude, or simple, anyway.

Jens Nordlunde · 7th January 2005, 04:22 PM

My knowledge of Naga weapons is unfortunately close to non-existence, but I know that they have Naga weapons at the Pitt-Rivers Museum in Oxford, and I know that Brian has been there, so he may be able to help, or maybe Jim whom I think knows about Naga weapons.

Regards

Jens

ronpakis · 8th January 2005, 02:18 PM

Hello Jens,

I don't know anything about naga weapons but i do know that with an arrow the back of the shaft needs to be wrapped round with something (rope etc.) to prevent it from tearing because of the enormous power of the string of the bow when it is pulled back. It is also important that the arrow is very straight. Otherwise aiming will do you no good. The blade can, after usage, not be so straight but there has to be some traces of that (bending) If these two are there i think you can at least say it is a used one and made for a purpose. But if it's Naga i don't know.

Jim McDougall · 9th January 2005, 04:54 AM

John,
You do manage to acquire most interesting items !!
There really is precious little known on detail concerning the arrows of SE Asia, and while there is a degree of data on Naga weapons, the emphasis is on the daos, axes and spears, and virtually nothing on arrows.
The bamboo shaft does of course suggest an arrow from these regions, and the feathers used as fletching may as Tom suggests, hold some clues.

Examining the distinctive barbed head, the patina suggests some age, and as has been noted, this is quite crudely done. With this noted, the twists at the base of the head seem an unusual feature for such a simple item as an arrow.
The most obvious feature to check would be of course the head and compare it to other arrowheads from these regions. The most typologically similar examples I have seen thus far are four illustrations shown in Egerton (1880), fig.15, #18, described as arrows termed 'tir' (on.p.78) and being from Chota Nagpur. While it is unclear in the drawings whether any such twisting at the base occurs, the shape of the shaft end wound and holding the tang seems similar, and the barbed heads have similar shape.

In Egerton, #155, he notes that Sikkim arrows are often painted black. Although the Sikkim arrows shown in Stone (p.73, #22 and #23) have the barbed form head, they are not of the more elongated profile as this example.

In another interesting note concerning Chota Nagpur (p.76), Egerton mentions the tribes Munda and Kol, when they rose in insurrection in 1831, sent an arrow to every village to rouse inhabitants to arms. I include this simply to note significance of the arrow in symbolic sense in certain degree in these tribes (with attention to the added twists and lack of supportive wrap noted for actual use which this example lacks).

Chota Nagpur is a hilly, forest covered plateau in India due west inland from Plassey in Bengal, and SW of Sikkim (which is located between Nepal and Bhutan) and from Assam and the Naga regions to the east.

Without further distinct data on the arrows of the Naga, we cannot rule out that possibility, but may consider that this arrow is quite possibly from the Chota Nagpur tribes with the noted references, pending further data. As always, despite apparant patination, it is hard to determine age from photo. The crude twists and bevels on the head do certainly suggest native work .

All the best,
Jim

JPSF · 10th January 2005, 05:18 AM

Thanks for the input. I'm sure it's Asian and I know it's an arrow, but there seem to be too many variables. With that kind of barb it would seem to be for hunting.

A few beers in Baltimore will solve the mystery.

tom hyle · 16th February 2005, 03:04 AM

An interesting arrow is ebay #6510130999 Now that I look at this arrow again, I'm not sure how similar they are......

9th January 2005, 04:54 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,944	John, You do manage to acquire most interesting items !! There really is precious little known on detail concerning the arrows of SE Asia, and while there is a degree of data on Naga weapons, the emphasis is on the daos, axes and spears, and virtually nothing on arrows. The bamboo shaft does of course suggest an arrow from these regions, and the feathers used as fletching may as Tom suggests, hold some clues. Examining the distinctive barbed head, the patina suggests some age, and as has been noted, this is quite crudely done. With this noted, the twists at the base of the head seem an unusual feature for such a simple item as an arrow. The most obvious feature to check would be of course the head and compare it to other arrowheads from these regions. The most typologically similar examples I have seen thus far are four illustrations shown in Egerton (1880), fig.15, #18, described as arrows termed 'tir' (on.p.78) and being from Chota Nagpur. While it is unclear in the drawings whether any such twisting at the base occurs, the shape of the shaft end wound and holding the tang seems similar, and the barbed heads have similar shape. In Egerton, #155, he notes that Sikkim arrows are often painted black. Although the Sikkim arrows shown in Stone (p.73, #22 and #23) have the barbed form head, they are not of the more elongated profile as this example. In another interesting note concerning Chota Nagpur (p.76), Egerton mentions the tribes Munda and Kol, when they rose in insurrection in 1831, sent an arrow to every village to rouse inhabitants to arms. I include this simply to note significance of the arrow in symbolic sense in certain degree in these tribes (with attention to the added twists and lack of supportive wrap noted for actual use which this example lacks). Chota Nagpur is a hilly, forest covered plateau in India due west inland from Plassey in Bengal, and SW of Sikkim (which is located between Nepal and Bhutan) and from Assam and the Naga regions to the east. Without further distinct data on the arrows of the Naga, we cannot rule out that possibility, but may consider that this arrow is quite possibly from the Chota Nagpur tribes with the noted references, pending further data. As always, despite apparant patination, it is hard to determine age from photo. The crude twists and bevels on the head do certainly suggest native work . All the best, Jim Last edited by Jim McDougall; 9th January 2005 at 05:14 AM.

5th January 2005, 01:59 AM	#1
JPSF Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 56	arrow for ID blackened bamboo shaft with no visible markings, 27" o/a, very interesting twist on the head's shaft....guessing Naga but know zero about these. Any comments will be most appreciated. Thanks

5th January 2005, 02:25 AM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I don't know much for you. The flights (feathers) might be more useful for ID than the blade. They seem remarkably crude, or simple, anyway.

7th January 2005, 04:22 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	My knowledge of Naga weapons is unfortunately close to non-existence, but I know that they have Naga weapons at the Pitt-Rivers Museum in Oxford, and I know that Brian has been there, so he may be able to help, or maybe Jim whom I think knows about Naga weapons. Regards Jens

8th January 2005, 02:18 PM	#4
ronpakis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: netherlands Posts: 75	Hello Jens, I don't know anything about naga weapons but i do know that with an arrow the back of the shaft needs to be wrapped round with something (rope etc.) to prevent it from tearing because of the enormous power of the string of the bow when it is pulled back. It is also important that the arrow is very straight. Otherwise aiming will do you no good. The blade can, after usage, not be so straight but there has to be some traces of that (bending) If these two are there i think you can at least say it is a used one and made for a purpose. But if it's Naga i don't know.

10th January 2005, 05:18 AM	#6
JPSF Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 56	Thanks for the input. I'm sure it's Asian and I know it's an arrow, but there seem to be too many variables. With that kind of barb it would seem to be for hunting. A few beers in Baltimore will solve the mystery.

16th February 2005, 03:04 AM	#7
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	An interesting arrow is ebay #6510130999 Now that I look at this arrow again, I'm not sure how similar they are......