SE Asia tree resin

JeffS · 22nd May 2023, 12:57 PM

I just brought back some dipterocarp tree resin from Cambodia. I know this can be processed into a thick paste that will harden for setting blade tangs into handles. I couldn't get this information from my contacts in the field, apparently the method has been lost by the people we sourced the tree resin from. Does anyone here happen to know what I could try?

milandro · 22nd May 2023, 01:33 PM

this is a video on how to make glue from pine resin, I suppose the process would be similar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-FksxvtyiQ

https://www.instructables.com/How-to...om-Pine-Resin/

https://sciencing.com/make-glue-sap-5061055.html

Ian · 22nd May 2023, 01:34 PM

Hi Jeff,

First thing I would try is heating a small sample gently to see if driving off some of the moisture helps to thicken the resin into something sticky like treacle. If it does, I would test it with two pieces of wood and see if it binds flat surfaces together. Then try with irregular surfaces of wood. Then with wood and a piece of scrap metal. Try not to get too many bubbles in it when it thickens.

This is what I have seen Filipinos do with tree resins. As far as any additives to improve the bonding, I have no idea.

JeffS · 22nd May 2023, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi Jeff,

First thing I would try is heating a small sample gently to see if driving off some of the moisture helps to thicken the resin into something sticky like treacle. If it does, I would test it with two pieces of wood and see if it binds flat surfaces together. Then try with irregular surfaces of wood. Then with wood and a piece of scrap metal. Try not to get too many bubbles in it when it thickens.

This is what I have seen Filipinos do with tree resins. As far as any additives to improve the bonding, I have no idea.

Good tips. Do you happen to know if the resin you saw in use in Philippines is almaciga resin? I brought some of that back from Palawan (crystalized).

Ian · 22nd May 2023, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffS

Good tips. Do you happen to know if the resin you saw in use in Philippines is almaciga resin? I brought some of that back from Palawan (crystalized).

I don't recall now Jeff. The demonstration I saw was in Central Luzon, near the former U.S. naval base, put on by the Aete people. I posted an article by Fox (PDF format) some time ago which talked a lot about native plants used in making bows and arrows, including the use of resins to affix arrow points. You will probably find something relevant in that article.

The Fox article is attached to this post http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...2&postcount=17

Tim Simmons · 22nd May 2023, 06:05 PM

I have been interested in natural resins as glue. I have bought crystalline resin lumps from ebay. However the cherry tree in my garden produces resin {Gummosis} which I thought was interesting. Only small amounts but useable.

kai · 22nd May 2023, 09:57 PM

AFAIK, resin that is fluid tends to be utilized for surface treatment of wood (as a local alternative to shellac); I believe dipterocarp resin was mentioned in the book "Spirit of Wood".

Resin for setting a blade into the hilt is usually solid and mixed with beeswax (to make it less brittle) and a filler like brick dust (for better overall hardness). This needs to be done upon melting the resin & wax - be very careful since it is easily flammable and sticks to the skin like hell! There are volatile components in the resin and, thus, expect pungent smell or even smoke - best prepared outside (without open flames to avoid ignition) and with dedicated gear. Don't try it in a kitchen...

Exact ratios depend on the ingredients. Alan posted a traditional recipe here a good while ago which can serve as a good starting point. Some experimentation will be needed if you try other ingredients.

Regards,
Kai

Maj-Biffy Snodgrass · 22nd May 2023, 11:01 PM

The resin you speak of is not the same as you have Jeff, well it is from the same tree but the way it is made is by using broken down dry leaf dust and the black tar lacquer resin from the tree, which is black like tar when it is collected, the charcoal is already in it from the burned trunk hole in the base of the tree, it is used to make fire in wet jungle and damp and it will burn in rain, but it is also used to set blades which I have pm'd you about and how to use it, you will not see it today as most of the guys who made it are dead, the modern age does not need it it seems, but it can still be bought in Thailand if you know where to find it, Chiangmai - Chiangrai out of the way regions in the north you may find it, they use it in Burma to and laos, but it is called by many names, I know it as Kitai, but there are many more modern things used in making it today.
Today they simply do a burn in for the tang, then push a plastic carrier bag inside and push in the heated tang heated to blue and let it cool where as they used to put in little pieces if kitai and do the same, it does the same as Kitai resin and is recycling at its best as I see it.

Real kitai is here in the pics, the bars are 10 inches long by 2 inches by 1 inch and wrapped in a leaf wrap, I have had it for many years, it can be used to fix holes in boats, anything really, and it will not come undone unless heated, but you will not stick 2 pieces of timber together with it, it is not a wood glue.
All dha and daab blades are set with this or another type of resin mix from the same tree that when you heat the blade at the forte the heat will travel into the hilt and allow you to remove the blade, re set it, etc etc, but it sets fast, 2 to 5 mins max, and when it does set hard it is like concrete and will last for hundreds of years.

Charcoal powder might work and maybe a little bees wax, trial and error really and you might get the same type of consistency as the kitai resin I know and have.

I would not however try to heat it or render it down as suggested here by one member, especially not indoors, the fumes from it when heated are very very poisonous, if it sticks to your skin it will burn you badly and not come off until your skin does.
Believe me I have used this resin many times and have been burned by it to, be careful when you make it up, gloves maybe a good idea and do it outside if you are going to heat it and do not breath it in, dried cow dung is also used to thicken it in some regions, and in others burned powdered egg shells or even earth dust.
Hope this helps. Snody

A. G. Maisey · 22nd May 2023, 11:27 PM

Kai is absolutely correct, I could not have said this better myself.

What is needed is a substance that in Jawa is called "damar selo" = "rock resin", hard irregular lumps.

In Central Jawa the preparation & use of this material is regarded as a specialist job, it is not quite as easy as it sounds.

22nd May 2023, 12:57 PM	#1
JeffS Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 345	SE Asia tree resin I just brought back some dipterocarp tree resin from Cambodia. I know this can be processed into a thick paste that will harden for setting blade tangs into handles. I couldn't get this information from my contacts in the field, apparently the method has been lost by the people we sourced the tree resin from. Does anyone here happen to know what I could try? Attached Images

22nd May 2023, 11:01 PM	#8
Maj-Biffy Snodgrass Member Join Date: Mar 2023 Posts: 66	Kitai - resin gum The resin you speak of is not the same as you have Jeff, well it is from the same tree but the way it is made is by using broken down dry leaf dust and the black tar lacquer resin from the tree, which is black like tar when it is collected, the charcoal is already in it from the burned trunk hole in the base of the tree, it is used to make fire in wet jungle and damp and it will burn in rain, but it is also used to set blades which I have pm'd you about and how to use it, you will not see it today as most of the guys who made it are dead, the modern age does not need it it seems, but it can still be bought in Thailand if you know where to find it, Chiangmai - Chiangrai out of the way regions in the north you may find it, they use it in Burma to and laos, but it is called by many names, I know it as Kitai, but there are many more modern things used in making it today. Today they simply do a burn in for the tang, then push a plastic carrier bag inside and push in the heated tang heated to blue and let it cool where as they used to put in little pieces if kitai and do the same, it does the same as Kitai resin and is recycling at its best as I see it. Real kitai is here in the pics, the bars are 10 inches long by 2 inches by 1 inch and wrapped in a leaf wrap, I have had it for many years, it can be used to fix holes in boats, anything really, and it will not come undone unless heated, but you will not stick 2 pieces of timber together with it, it is not a wood glue. All dha and daab blades are set with this or another type of resin mix from the same tree that when you heat the blade at the forte the heat will travel into the hilt and allow you to remove the blade, re set it, etc etc, but it sets fast, 2 to 5 mins max, and when it does set hard it is like concrete and will last for hundreds of years. Charcoal powder might work and maybe a little bees wax, trial and error really and you might get the same type of consistency as the kitai resin I know and have. I would not however try to heat it or render it down as suggested here by one member, especially not indoors, the fumes from it when heated are very very poisonous, if it sticks to your skin it will burn you badly and not come off until your skin does. Believe me I have used this resin many times and have been burned by it to, be careful when you make it up, gloves maybe a good idea and do it outside if you are going to heat it and do not breath it in, dried cow dung is also used to thicken it in some regions, and in others burned powdered egg shells or even earth dust. Hope this helps. Snody Attached Images Last edited by Maj-Biffy Snodgrass; 23rd May 2023 at 09:02 PM. Reason: mistake

22nd May 2023, 01:33 PM	#2
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 477	this is a video on how to make glue from pine resin, I suppose the process would be similar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-FksxvtyiQ https://www.instructables.com/How-to...om-Pine-Resin/ https://sciencing.com/make-glue-sap-5061055.html

22nd May 2023, 01:34 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Hi Jeff, First thing I would try is heating a small sample gently to see if driving off some of the moisture helps to thicken the resin into something sticky like treacle. If it does, I would test it with two pieces of wood and see if it binds flat surfaces together. Then try with irregular surfaces of wood. Then with wood and a piece of scrap metal. Try not to get too many bubbles in it when it thickens. This is what I have seen Filipinos do with tree resins. As far as any additives to improve the bonding, I have no idea.

22nd May 2023, 06:05 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I have been interested in natural resins as glue. I have bought crystalline resin lumps from ebay. However the cherry tree in my garden produces resin {Gummosis} which I thought was interesting. Only small amounts but useable.

22nd May 2023, 09:57 PM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	AFAIK, resin that is fluid tends to be utilized for surface treatment of wood (as a local alternative to shellac); I believe dipterocarp resin was mentioned in the book "Spirit of Wood". Resin for setting a blade into the hilt is usually solid and mixed with beeswax (to make it less brittle) and a filler like brick dust (for better overall hardness). This needs to be done upon melting the resin & wax - be very careful since it is easily flammable and sticks to the skin like hell! There are volatile components in the resin and, thus, expect pungent smell or even smoke - best prepared outside (without open flames to avoid ignition) and with dedicated gear. Don't try it in a kitchen... Exact ratios depend on the ingredients. Alan posted a traditional recipe here a good while ago which can serve as a good starting point. Some experimentation will be needed if you try other ingredients. Regards, Kai

22nd May 2023, 11:27 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	Kai is absolutely correct, I could not have said this better myself. What is needed is a substance that in Jawa is called "damar selo" = "rock resin", hard irregular lumps. In Central Jawa the preparation & use of this material is regarded as a specialist job, it is not quite as easy as it sounds.