Couple of Moro spears

Ian · 19th April 2005, 08:49 PM

Interesting pair of spears from the same dealer just finished on eBay. Listed as Moro, I have my doubts that either is a Moro spear.

The first one went for quite a bit, and at least two of our Forumites were outbid by a guy who is "Not a Registered User"

Stay tuned alternate bidders!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7314587942

The second one, which was similar in style and also unusually long, drew virtually no attention and went for a song!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7314600738

Sometimes I just cannot fathom eBay.

Ian.

Rick · 19th April 2005, 09:14 PM

Will someone please explain to me how a person who is not a registered user can even bid on an eBay auction .

AFAIK you have to register to bid !!

LabanTayo · 19th April 2005, 09:15 PM

ian,
where do you think the spears originate from?

Ian · 19th April 2005, 09:42 PM

Shelley:

IMO there is too much brass on these for typical Maranao or Maguindanao work. The brass sockets suggest T'boli, Bagobo or B'laan craftmanship, and I think they are more likely Lumad than Moro. The brass rings around the shaft below the socket also don't strike me as Moro work. Basically, these look like stuff you can pick up in Davao City, much of which is Lumad or contemporary Maranao work for the tourist industry.

Some of the contemporary Moro pieces from Lanao have more brass than older items, so in that sense it could be Moro.

I bought one of these spears a while back from the same dealer.

Rick:

I think you can become "Not a Registered User" by violating eBay Rules, especially with too many negative feedbacks or attempting to sell prohibited items. They may have slapped the tag on the guy after this item finished, in which case that is bad luck for the seller. The guy who finished second may end up being offered this one -- happened to me a couple of years ago when the person who outbid me was tagged by eBay and I ended up with a nice knife.

Ian.

Spunjer · 19th April 2005, 11:07 PM

i brought back something similar. since they were too long, me and my cousin took the spears to a local furniture shop. the face on one of the workers was priceless; prolly the same reaction one would get if i buy a brand new car and take it to an auto shop to have it spray painted using spray cans, lol. reason we took it over there? to get it cut. i asked the same worker if here recognize what it is, and he told me those two pictured below were bagobo, and were very, very old. my reason to believe him? he didn't have anything to gain, and he's a bagobo. the whole time he keep mumbling something. i asked my cousin what he's saying and he said something to the effect "what a pity!". i told my cuz to tell him that i will put it back together when i get back to manila (didn't tell anyone i'm from the states), and it's the only way to get it on the plane.

anyhow, i'm also posting a budiak that i had the place cut and is now put together with a rattan bind.

btw, for info purposes, the shaft is made out of anahaw...

Ian · 19th April 2005, 11:16 PM

Thanks Spunjer.

The designs on your spear sockets look very much like traditional Bagobo designs and they appear to be quite old, as you mentioned. Good finds.

Ian.

Conogre · 21st April 2005, 08:14 AM

Very nice examples and the sold price of the 2nd one is enough to bring tears to the eye.

If shipped to the US intact, that brought it MUCH higher, I would suspect.
Mike

Bill · 21st April 2005, 01:21 PM

in both Cebu & Negros I have seen cheap, short iron spears for sale. Don't think they are for tourist & never got a good answer for what they were for. Kind of wish I had bought one, they were very cheap. Anyone know thier purpose?

Spunjer · 21st April 2005, 04:03 PM

bill,you're not talking about an indian pana, are you?

how big is this spear?

Bill · 21st April 2005, 06:39 PM

maybe 4.5', cheap iron head, saw them several times, 20 in a barrel, only 100 pesos, if I remember. can't figure them good for fighting or hunting.

Ian · 21st April 2005, 06:55 PM

Similar "Igorot" spears are all over Manila too. I think they are somewhat traditional styles made of inexpensive materials in a non-functional form for decorative purposes. There, I didn't even say the "T" word!

Ian.

Battara · 21st April 2005, 07:57 PM

Ian, I have now seen these show up at the gun shows. No patina on the shafts (or spear blades sometimes).

Federico · 22nd April 2005, 01:57 AM

The first one was interesting, at least to me, due to the intact butt spike. Regardless of it being new or old, that struck me as interesting. I am sure that is why it got so much attention.

The markings on the brass collar may indeed point to Bagabo origins, but I would caution against assuming brass collars in of in themselves point to lumad origins, as Ive encountered many Moro spears with brass collars. Brass was important in many Moro societies as a mark of status, hence the value of agong, betel cases, and brass lantaka. Good reference to the importance of brass can be found in A Moro Princess by Harriet Arnold Febiger

zamboanga · 20th May 2005, 08:21 AM

I was looking for this picture when this thread was still active.

I think this would fall into the same category as the ones mentioned by Bill.

The edges of this one are dull and the pole is less than an inch in diameter.

total length is less than 5 feet and the butt end features a simple brass band.

what is interesting is that the head feels heavier that the larger moro budiak.

19th April 2005, 08:49 PM	#1
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Couple of Moro spears Interesting pair of spears from the same dealer just finished on eBay. Listed as Moro, I have my doubts that either is a Moro spear. The first one went for quite a bit, and at least two of our Forumites were outbid by a guy who is "Not a Registered User" Stay tuned alternate bidders! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7314587942 The second one, which was similar in style and also unusually long, drew virtually no attention and went for a song! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7314600738 Sometimes I just cannot fathom eBay. Ian.

19th April 2005, 09:14 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Wha .... ??? Will someone please explain to me how a person who is not a registered user can even bid on an eBay auction . AFAIK you have to register to bid !!

19th April 2005, 11:07 PM	#5
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	i brought back something similar. since they were too long, me and my cousin took the spears to a local furniture shop. the face on one of the workers was priceless; prolly the same reaction one would get if i buy a brand new car and take it to an auto shop to have it spray painted using spray cans, lol. reason we took it over there? to get it cut. i asked the same worker if here recognize what it is, and he told me those two pictured below were bagobo, and were very, very old. my reason to believe him? he didn't have anything to gain, and he's a bagobo. the whole time he keep mumbling something. i asked my cousin what he's saying and he said something to the effect "what a pity!". i told my cuz to tell him that i will put it back together when i get back to manila (didn't tell anyone i'm from the states), and it's the only way to get it on the plane. anyhow, i'm also posting a budiak that i had the place cut and is now put together with a rattan bind. btw, for info purposes, the shaft is made out of anahaw... Attached Images

20th May 2005, 08:21 AM	#14
zamboanga Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: zamboanga city, philippines Posts: 132	UNUSUAL SPEAR I was looking for this picture when this thread was still active. I think this would fall into the same category as the ones mentioned by Bill. The edges of this one are dull and the pole is less than an inch in diameter. total length is less than 5 feet and the butt end features a simple brass band. what is interesting is that the head feels heavier that the larger moro budiak. Attached Images

19th April 2005, 09:15 PM	#3
LabanTayo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 177	ian, where do you think the spears originate from?

19th April 2005, 09:42 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Shelley: IMO there is too much brass on these for typical Maranao or Maguindanao work. The brass sockets suggest T'boli, Bagobo or B'laan craftmanship, and I think they are more likely Lumad than Moro. The brass rings around the shaft below the socket also don't strike me as Moro work. Basically, these look like stuff you can pick up in Davao City, much of which is Lumad or contemporary Maranao work for the tourist industry. Some of the contemporary Moro pieces from Lanao have more brass than older items, so in that sense it could be Moro. I bought one of these spears a while back from the same dealer. Rick: I think you can become "Not a Registered User" by violating eBay Rules, especially with too many negative feedbacks or attempting to sell prohibited items. They may have slapped the tag on the guy after this item finished, in which case that is bad luck for the seller. The guy who finished second may end up being offered this one -- happened to me a couple of years ago when the person who outbid me was tagged by eBay and I ended up with a nice knife. Ian.

19th April 2005, 11:16 PM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Thanks Spunjer. The designs on your spear sockets look very much like traditional Bagobo designs and they appear to be quite old, as you mentioned. Good finds. Ian.

21st April 2005, 08:14 AM	#7
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Very nice examples and the sold price of the 2nd one is enough to bring tears to the eye. If shipped to the US intact, that brought it MUCH higher, I would suspect. Mike

21st April 2005, 01:21 PM	#8
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	in both Cebu & Negros I have seen cheap, short iron spears for sale. Don't think they are for tourist & never got a good answer for what they were for. Kind of wish I had bought one, they were very cheap. Anyone know thier purpose?

21st April 2005, 04:03 PM	#9
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	bill,you're not talking about an indian pana, are you? how big is this spear?

21st April 2005, 06:39 PM	#10
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	maybe 4.5', cheap iron head, saw them several times, 20 in a barrel, only 100 pesos, if I remember. can't figure them good for fighting or hunting.

21st April 2005, 06:55 PM	#11
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Similar "Igorot" spears are all over Manila too. I think they are somewhat traditional styles made of inexpensive materials in a non-functional form for decorative purposes. There, I didn't even say the "T" word! Ian.

21st April 2005, 07:57 PM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Ian, I have now seen these show up at the gun shows. No patina on the shafts (or spear blades sometimes).

22nd April 2005, 01:57 AM	#13
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	The first one was interesting, at least to me, due to the intact butt spike. Regardless of it being new or old, that struck me as interesting. I am sure that is why it got so much attention. The markings on the brass collar may indeed point to Bagabo origins, but I would caution against assuming brass collars in of in themselves point to lumad origins, as Ive encountered many Moro spears with brass collars. Brass was important in many Moro societies as a mark of status, hence the value of agong, betel cases, and brass lantaka. Good reference to the importance of brass can be found in A Moro Princess by Harriet Arnold Febiger