Strange African Spear?

Lew · 13th February 2006, 03:22 PM

Hi Guys

I picked this up after the auction. Does anyone have a clue to what it is? It seems to look North African to me maybe Sudanese?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-African-...QQcmdZViewItem

Lew

Luc LEFEBVRE · 13th February 2006, 10:57 PM

Not from Central-Africa.There are short spears like this in sub-saharian countries, Sudan, East and South Africa.The handle seems to be wrapped with varan skin.But I' ve never seen one like this.
Luc

fearn · 14th February 2006, 02:21 AM

I'm feeling too lazy to search, but wasn't there a crocodile spear a few months back that had a similar conformation, short handle and big blade?

F

Tim Simmons · 14th February 2006, 07:01 PM

I would agree with the above and say this is East Central Africa, the south of the Sudan and N Uganda. There is some resemblance to this N Ugandan hunting spear. Tim

Lew · 16th February 2006, 03:29 AM

The spear arrived today. It really is a superb piece

the shaft is octagonal in shape the head is beautifully forged. The hilt seems to be wood covered in lizard skin. I think this could be Danakil (Afar) or Somali circa 1890 it just oozes quality.

Lew

Tim Simmons · 16th February 2006, 08:28 AM

Superb!!!!

Flavio · 16th February 2006, 05:14 PM

I agree, SUPERB!!!!

Lew · 16th February 2006, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

I agree, SUPERB!!!!

Gentleman

Granted it's a nice spear but what tribe or region does it come from? Do you think that this is a battle weapon or something carried around as a status symbol?

Lew

Tim Simmons · 16th February 2006, 08:25 PM

Lew, I am just thinking aloud. Judging from the pristine nature of the metal and most of all the skin on the handle, this is surely a piece of chiefly regalia or scepter. It might also have been a military commanders baton or something like that. It is wonderful . I do not see it as a Mahdist item, the south Sudan seems good to me. A precise location can be a problem on many African pieces that were often considered inferior or at worst junk and little care was taken with documentation untill the mid 20th cent. Great find. Tim

Jim McDougall · 17th February 2006, 04:17 AM

Hi Lew,
I think you are astutely on target in your assessment that this item may be from Somalia or Danakil regions. I also agree with Tim's observation that this may well be a tribal chieftains spear which may well have been a diplomatic gift or specially made as symbol of rank or status, as it is of remarkable quality. I am inclined to agree with earlier 20th c. date as well.

Assigning regional provenance to African weapons is sometimes nearly impossible with the constant geopolitical flux, trade interaction and by the 20th century the addition of the tourist/souvenier factor. Spring ("African Arms & Armour", p.103) notes that the best Danakil spears have faceted sockets and leaf shaped blades. While this item has a faceted shaft rather than socket, it seems worthy of comparison. The Danakil inhabited the plain between North Ethiopian highlands and the Red Sea, thus were in proximity to the trade entering via that littoral, and the Somalian attribution may be incorporated with this. The Nilotic influence is apparant on this spear with the lizard skin which may be of the monitor lizards of Sudanese areas. The constant diffusion of Sudanese tribes such as Beja and Hadendoa into the Danakil areas and Eritrea may well account for such influences.

What seems unusual to me is that this piece reminds me essentially of an assegai in its apparant configuration as a short stabbing spear (although clearly not of assegai form). Possibly that may be congruent with the mention of the Ugandan spears, which I am unfamiliar with and may be similar to the assegai in that sense. In any case, this short spear seems an anomaly which may have been fashioned for a prominant figure as a diplomatic gift as such items often reflected such hybridizations and high quality.

I agree with everyone, this is a magnificent piece!!! Well done

Best regards,
Jim

Luc LEFEBVRE · 19th February 2006, 06:30 PM

Great piece, I agree.
There is a lot of very good books, monographs and thesis on African weapons, especially for Central Africa.Throwing knives, sickled weapons, executions knives are classified in different category.Provenance is known.
No problem.
Even for most of the spears, bows and arrows of Congo.

A small list:

The African throwing knife: a style analysis PETER WESTERDIJK UNIVERSITE D’UTRECHT

Tribal arms monograph vol I n° 1, 2, 3 JAN ELSEN BRUXELLES
De fer et de fierté, Armes blanche d’Afrique Noire du musée Barbier Mueller 5 CONTINENTS

Kipinga Throwing Blades of Central Africa Marc L FELIX JAHN MUNICH

Couteaux de jet ou la collection d’un peintre Patrick et Ondine MESTDAGH 31 rue des minimes BRUXELLES.

Armi bianche dell’Africa Nera - Black africa’straditional arms ROBERTO BALLARINI AFRICA CURIO MILAN

Lame d’Africa MARCO S PICARDI LUCIANO SALVATICI Centro di recerca e documentazione sull’artigianato dei ferri taglienti - Scarperia - FLORENCE

Armes blanches de l’Afrique Noire ABC n° hors serie de septembre 1974

Beauty in the Blade MARIE JO ARNOLDI - MARC LEO FELIX - JAN ELSEN UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI -KANSAS CITY

Afrikanische waffen WERNER FISHER MANFRED A.ZIRNGIBL PRINZ VERLAG PASSAU

Ngola HURST GALLERY CAMBRIDGE MASSACHUSETS

African arms and armour CHRISTOPHER SPRING BRITISH MUSEUM PRESS

L’Art de la guerre CHRISTIAN FEEST RIVE GAUCHE PRODUCTIONS

Tribal arms monograph vol II - GUBA vol 1 Boucliers tresses du bassin du Congo JAN ELSEN YVAN BAUR EDITIONS MARC FELIX

Tribal arms monograph vol II - GUBA vol 2 Boucliers en bois du bassin du Congo JAN ELSEN YVAN BAUR EDITIONS MARC FELIX

Jim McDougall · 20th February 2006, 03:18 PM

Hi Luc,
Thank you for adding that outstanding bibliography!! These are all excellent titles, and many of the titles though published in one language, carry subcaptions and other language summarizations.
As can be seen by my post on this item, identifying ethnographic weapons is often extremely subjective and despite the numerous resources, a considerable degree of speculation and consideration is often required.

To identify a weapon specifically using the typology offered as guidelines in most resources is typically very fortunate. The hybridization, diffusion through trade and reworking of various weapons with the often nomadic movements ,in degree,of tribal peoples, most often compounds the difficulty in exact identification . With weapons becoming composite over long working lives, accurate dating also usually presents a problem. The provenance of a weapon usually offers only its place and time of collection, and while its noting can often present sound identification, there are obviously many complications which may discredit such noted provenance. In the case of museums there have been numerous instances of miscataloging, items misplaced in incorrect groupings and other similar situations. The provenance of a weapon from private collections typically relies heavily on assumption unless the weapon is collected personally rather than acquired through purchase from secondary sources. Fortunately there are numerous dealers whose reputations are beyond reproach, and thier descriptions, reflecting sound experience, may be relied upon.

Thank you again for adding those outstanding titles (some of which I do not yet have so gotta get busy!!!

and for the opportunity to add my own notes for any collectors just starting in 'the great game'!! that is collecting ethnographic edged weapons.

All the very best,
Jim

Luc LEFEBVRE · 20th February 2006, 11:04 PM

There is many other books on African weapons, let me know if you want another list...
The problem in Africa is that the blacksmith of a tribe, if he is recognized has a good one, is forging for many other tribes, and so the weapons are moving from a region to another.And then are reproduced and copied.
There are very good studies about that and really good specialists.But we are discovering new things every day, that's why I like African weapons.
Luc

13th February 2006, 03:22 PM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Strange African Spear? Hi Guys I picked this up after the auction. Does anyone have a clue to what it is? It seems to look North African to me maybe Sudanese? http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-African-...QQcmdZViewItem Lew

14th February 2006, 07:01 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I would agree with the above and say this is East Central Africa, the south of the Sudan and N Uganda. There is some resemblance to this N Ugandan hunting spear. Tim Attached Images

16th February 2006, 03:29 AM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	The spear arrived today. It really is a superb piece the shaft is octagonal in shape the head is beautifully forged. The hilt seems to be wood covered in lizard skin. I think this could be Danakil (Afar) or Somali circa 1890 it just oozes quality. Lew Attached Images Last edited by LOUIEBLADES; 16th February 2006 at 04:45 PM.

19th February 2006, 06:30 PM	#11
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 472	Localisation Great piece, I agree. There is a lot of very good books, monographs and thesis on African weapons, especially for Central Africa.Throwing knives, sickled weapons, executions knives are classified in different category.Provenance is known. No problem. Even for most of the spears, bows and arrows of Congo. A small list: The African throwing knife: a style analysis PETER WESTERDIJK UNIVERSITE D’UTRECHT Tribal arms monograph vol I n° 1, 2, 3 JAN ELSEN BRUXELLES De fer et de fierté, Armes blanche d’Afrique Noire du musée Barbier Mueller 5 CONTINENTS Kipinga Throwing Blades of Central Africa Marc L FELIX JAHN MUNICH Couteaux de jet ou la collection d’un peintre Patrick et Ondine MESTDAGH 31 rue des minimes BRUXELLES. Armi bianche dell’Africa Nera - Black africa’straditional arms ROBERTO BALLARINI AFRICA CURIO MILAN Lame d’Africa MARCO S PICARDI LUCIANO SALVATICI Centro di recerca e documentazione sull’artigianato dei ferri taglienti - Scarperia - FLORENCE Armes blanches de l’Afrique Noire ABC n° hors serie de septembre 1974 Beauty in the Blade MARIE JO ARNOLDI - MARC LEO FELIX - JAN ELSEN UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI -KANSAS CITY Afrikanische waffen WERNER FISHER MANFRED A.ZIRNGIBL PRINZ VERLAG PASSAU Ngola HURST GALLERY CAMBRIDGE MASSACHUSETS African arms and armour CHRISTOPHER SPRING BRITISH MUSEUM PRESS L’Art de la guerre CHRISTIAN FEEST RIVE GAUCHE PRODUCTIONS Tribal arms monograph vol II - GUBA vol 1 Boucliers tresses du bassin du Congo JAN ELSEN YVAN BAUR EDITIONS MARC FELIX Tribal arms monograph vol II - GUBA vol 2 Boucliers en bois du bassin du Congo JAN ELSEN YVAN BAUR EDITIONS MARC FELIX

13th February 2006, 10:57 PM	#2
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 472	Not from Central-Africa.There are short spears like this in sub-saharian countries, Sudan, East and South Africa.The handle seems to be wrapped with varan skin.But I' ve never seen one like this. Luc

14th February 2006, 02:21 AM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	I'm feeling too lazy to search, but wasn't there a crocodile spear a few months back that had a similar conformation, short handle and big blade? F

16th February 2006, 08:28 AM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Superb!!!!

16th February 2006, 05:14 PM	#7
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	I agree, SUPERB!!!!

16th February 2006, 08:25 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Lew, I am just thinking aloud. Judging from the pristine nature of the metal and most of all the skin on the handle, this is surely a piece of chiefly regalia or scepter. It might also have been a military commanders baton or something like that. It is wonderful . I do not see it as a Mahdist item, the south Sudan seems good to me. A precise location can be a problem on many African pieces that were often considered inferior or at worst junk and little care was taken with documentation untill the mid 20th cent. Great find. Tim

17th February 2006, 04:17 AM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	Hi Lew, I think you are astutely on target in your assessment that this item may be from Somalia or Danakil regions. I also agree with Tim's observation that this may well be a tribal chieftains spear which may well have been a diplomatic gift or specially made as symbol of rank or status, as it is of remarkable quality. I am inclined to agree with earlier 20th c. date as well. Assigning regional provenance to African weapons is sometimes nearly impossible with the constant geopolitical flux, trade interaction and by the 20th century the addition of the tourist/souvenier factor. Spring ("African Arms & Armour", p.103) notes that the best Danakil spears have faceted sockets and leaf shaped blades. While this item has a faceted shaft rather than socket, it seems worthy of comparison. The Danakil inhabited the plain between North Ethiopian highlands and the Red Sea, thus were in proximity to the trade entering via that littoral, and the Somalian attribution may be incorporated with this. The Nilotic influence is apparant on this spear with the lizard skin which may be of the monitor lizards of Sudanese areas. The constant diffusion of Sudanese tribes such as Beja and Hadendoa into the Danakil areas and Eritrea may well account for such influences. What seems unusual to me is that this piece reminds me essentially of an assegai in its apparant configuration as a short stabbing spear (although clearly not of assegai form). Possibly that may be congruent with the mention of the Ugandan spears, which I am unfamiliar with and may be similar to the assegai in that sense. In any case, this short spear seems an anomaly which may have been fashioned for a prominant figure as a diplomatic gift as such items often reflected such hybridizations and high quality. I agree with everyone, this is a magnificent piece!!! Well done Best regards, Jim

20th February 2006, 03:18 PM	#12
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	Hi Luc, Thank you for adding that outstanding bibliography!! These are all excellent titles, and many of the titles though published in one language, carry subcaptions and other language summarizations. As can be seen by my post on this item, identifying ethnographic weapons is often extremely subjective and despite the numerous resources, a considerable degree of speculation and consideration is often required. To identify a weapon specifically using the typology offered as guidelines in most resources is typically very fortunate. The hybridization, diffusion through trade and reworking of various weapons with the often nomadic movements ,in degree,of tribal peoples, most often compounds the difficulty in exact identification . With weapons becoming composite over long working lives, accurate dating also usually presents a problem. The provenance of a weapon usually offers only its place and time of collection, and while its noting can often present sound identification, there are obviously many complications which may discredit such noted provenance. In the case of museums there have been numerous instances of miscataloging, items misplaced in incorrect groupings and other similar situations. The provenance of a weapon from private collections typically relies heavily on assumption unless the weapon is collected personally rather than acquired through purchase from secondary sources. Fortunately there are numerous dealers whose reputations are beyond reproach, and thier descriptions, reflecting sound experience, may be relied upon. Thank you again for adding those outstanding titles (some of which I do not yet have so gotta get busy!!! and for the opportunity to add my own notes for any collectors just starting in 'the great game'!! that is collecting ethnographic edged weapons. All the very best, Jim

20th February 2006, 11:04 PM	#13
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 472	There is many other books on African weapons, let me know if you want another list... The problem in Africa is that the blacksmith of a tribe, if he is recognized has a good one, is forging for many other tribes, and so the weapons are moving from a region to another.And then are reproduced and copied. There are very good studies about that and really good specialists.But we are discovering new things every day, that's why I like African weapons. Luc