Question about Tulwar

Kubur · 22nd January 2021, 01:26 PM

Hi guys,

I have a question.

Do you know good tulwars with brass handles?

I have the feeling that good tulwars come always with steel handles.

Is it really true or do you have examples of good brass handled tulwar?

Kubur

Jim McDougall · 23rd January 2021, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi guys,

I have a question.

Do you know good tulwars with brass handles?

I have the feeling that good tulwars come always with steel handles.

Is it really true or do you have examples of good brass handled tulwar?

Kubur

It seems I once had a couple of brass hilt tulwars which had blades by MOLE, and I believe these were munitions grade for native cavalry units. They were sound and serviceable so not sure how to equate good or not. The native units during the Raj each selected their own preferred swords, many of which are noted as tulwars.

Edster · 23rd January 2021, 03:55 AM

Kubar,

Good question. I don't know anything about Tulwars or have examples for my argument, but can trot out some First Principles.

How were the handles made?

The handles are likely cast (although a Forged in Fire contestant has a great video where he forged a tulwar grip from steel.) Bronze casts a much lower temp and less production tech than does steel. Bronze can't readily be forged. Cast steel can be subsequently forged allowing for more shape processing. Iron can be hardened more than bronze.

Thus my guess is that lesser tulwars were made from bronze handles due to limited applied tech and cheaper overall production processes. Better ones from iron/steel due to more options for superior quality from that media.

Regards,
Ed

Kubur · 23rd January 2021, 09:13 AM

Dear Jim & Ed,

Thank you for your comments.

I read on this forum that brass handles were used by Hindu and Sikh for religious reasons, they can't hold steel. But I don't believe in it, you have Sikh knives entirely made of steel.

I also read on the forum, that brass handles were for cheap touristic tulwars, I don't believe in it too. This statment is purely based on recent 20th c. cheap touristic tulwars. I saw in India large panoplies of Indian swords with brass hilts. They were used in forts by the garrison.

I insist on brass and not bronze, because bronze is much heavier and not very handy for battle. And as you said Ed, they were cast, but I guess that steel handles were made in two parts too...

It's still a mystery why we don't have bras tulwars on this forum.

Best,
Kubur

David R · 23rd January 2021, 02:01 PM

There is a certain amount of prejudice against brass handles probably because of the cheapo tourist pieces and imports. From what I have seen brass is used on genuine decent swords, but as issue or arsenal items.
Some of the ferrous hilts I have owned were made in pieces and then brazed together, a more skilled and labour intensive method.

Pukka Bundook · 23rd January 2021, 02:54 PM

David,

I would go so far as to say that nearly all ferrous grips were made in parts and brazed together.
I have not seen as many as some here, but all the ones I Have seen were made that way.
I will have to look through Jen's very fine book, to see if he has any brass hilts in his collection.
Kabur,

I do not know where the information came from regarding brass, and Sikh and Hindu not allowed to hold steel!
Wherever it came from it is utterly false.

Very best wishes,

Richard.

Norman McCormick · 23rd January 2021, 03:01 PM

Hi,
This thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=tulwar may shed a little light. I too was of the opinion that brass/bronze hilts were of lesser quality but possibly not quite.
Regards,
Norman.

Kubur · 23rd January 2021, 05:06 PM

Yes, many European swords have brass hilts.

Thanks for the link and I found another one here
http://www.vikingsword.com/lew/w0167/w0167.html

It seems that these brass hilted swords come from Southern India, Malabar, Mysore... But I don't think it's always the case.

22nd January 2021, 01:26 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Question about Tulwar Hi guys, I have a question. Do you know good tulwars with brass handles? I have the feeling that good tulwars come always with steel handles. Is it really true or do you have examples of good brass handled tulwar? Kubur

23rd January 2021, 05:06 PM	#8
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Yes, many European swords have brass hilts. Thanks for the link and I found another one here http://www.vikingsword.com/lew/w0167/w0167.html It seems that these brass hilted swords come from Southern India, Malabar, Mysore... But I don't think it's always the case. Attached Images

23rd January 2021, 03:55 AM	#3
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 408	Kubar, Good question. I don't know anything about Tulwars or have examples for my argument, but can trot out some First Principles. How were the handles made? The handles are likely cast (although a Forged in Fire contestant has a great video where he forged a tulwar grip from steel.) Bronze casts a much lower temp and less production tech than does steel. Bronze can't readily be forged. Cast steel can be subsequently forged allowing for more shape processing. Iron can be hardened more than bronze. Thus my guess is that lesser tulwars were made from bronze handles due to limited applied tech and cheaper overall production processes. Better ones from iron/steel due to more options for superior quality from that media. Regards, Ed

23rd January 2021, 09:13 AM	#4
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Dear Jim & Ed, Thank you for your comments. I read on this forum that brass handles were used by Hindu and Sikh for religious reasons, they can't hold steel. But I don't believe in it, you have Sikh knives entirely made of steel. I also read on the forum, that brass handles were for cheap touristic tulwars, I don't believe in it too. This statment is purely based on recent 20th c. cheap touristic tulwars. I saw in India large panoplies of Indian swords with brass hilts. They were used in forts by the garrison. I insist on brass and not bronze, because bronze is much heavier and not very handy for battle. And as you said Ed, they were cast, but I guess that steel handles were made in two parts too... It's still a mystery why we don't have bras tulwars on this forum. Best, Kubur

23rd January 2021, 02:01 PM	#5
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	There is a certain amount of prejudice against brass handles probably because of the cheapo tourist pieces and imports. From what I have seen brass is used on genuine decent swords, but as issue or arsenal items. Some of the ferrous hilts I have owned were made in pieces and then brazed together, a more skilled and labour intensive method.

23rd January 2021, 02:54 PM	#6
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	David, I would go so far as to say that nearly all ferrous grips were made in parts and brazed together. I have not seen as many as some here, but all the ones I Have seen were made that way. I will have to look through Jen's very fine book, to see if he has any brass hilts in his collection. Kabur, I do not know where the information came from regarding brass, and Sikh and Hindu not allowed to hold steel! Wherever it came from it is utterly false. Very best wishes, Richard.

23rd January 2021, 03:01 PM	#7
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,596	Hi, This thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=tulwar may shed a little light. I too was of the opinion that brass/bronze hilts were of lesser quality but possibly not quite. Regards, Norman.