Scabbard question

[fearn]

Hi All,

Off-the-wall question: does anyone have a scabbard that's made of linen wrapped and glued around wood? I've read that it was a technique used in the early Middle Ages, but I haven't seen a good image of a scabbard made that way.

Reason I'm asking is that someone gave me a really nice reproduction bronze sword (sans scabbard), and I'm going to build a scabbard for it.

Best,

F

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by fearn

Hi All,

Off-the-wall question: does anyone have a scabbard that's made of linen wrapped and glued around wood? I've read that it was a technique used in the early Middle Ages, but I haven't seen a good image of a scabbard made that way.

Reason I'm asking is that someone gave me a really nice reproduction bronze sword (sans scabbard), and I'm going to build a scabbard for it.

Best,

F

Hi Fearn,
Not sure about it's historical use but I've had Tulwar with canvas/linen covered scabbards. The green 'military' type spring to mind but I've also had scabbards that were linen covered and then impregnated with paint to make like a heavy duty rexine type convering thats waterproof and 'fused' to the wood.

The bronze sword sounds interesting, do you have a pic?

Best
Gene

[fearn]

Hi Atlantia,

Thanks, that's pretty much what I'm thinking of doing. As for the sword, I just realized I haven't taken a good picture of it. You can see the sword at http://www.bronze-age-swords.com/Bri...d_European.htm. I got the "Limehouse Type," and it's much nicer in the hand. When the light gets better here, I'll post a picture.

I had a chat with the maker (Neil Burridge, great guy) and he told me that none of the British bronze swords have been found with any evidence of metal fittings. Either they were thrown into the river bare, or (more likely) their scabbards were made entirely of organic materials that rotted away. Leather and wood is the default choice, but if the vikings thought linen might work, I'm willing to try it too.

Best,

F

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by fearn

Hi Atlantia,

Thanks, that's pretty much what I'm thinking of doing. As for the sword, I just realized I haven't taken a good picture of it. You can see the sword at http://www.bronze-age-swords.com/Bri...d_European.htm. I got the "Limehouse Type," and it's much nicer in the hand. When the light gets better here, I'll post a picture.

I had a chat with the maker (Neil Burridge, great guy) and he told me that none of the British bronze swords have been found with any evidence of metal fittings. Either they were thrown into the river bare, or (more likely) their scabbards were made entirely of organic materials that rotted away. Leather and wood is the default choice, but if the vikings thought linen might work, I'm willing to try it too.

Best,

F

Hi Fearn

I've long admired Neil's work. There is a good video on youtube if you search using his name.

Bronze weapons are amazing. Are you making the hilt yourself or opting for one pre-hilted?

I don't have any European bronze swords, but I do have an ancient 'Persian' dagger and mace head.

Look forward to seeing pictures of your sword.
Best
Gene

[fearn]

Hi Atlantia,

Here are some pics. The hilt is from Neil, and admittedly a bit speculative.

That said, I've learned something about the difference between bronze swords and steel swords by handling this piece. as you can see from the picture, the mushroom hilt presses into the hand, and you simply can't lunge with this sword, no matter how much it looks like a thrusting design.

Instead, it's primarily a slashing sword. The thing I realized is that bronze is softer than steel. Because of this, it will collect dings faster than steel, and it's quite useful to have a second sharp edge. The hilt is square in cross section, with rounded edges where the blade is. It's quite easy to spin the blade 180 degrees without looking at it (because you can feel where the blade is, due to those bronze edges on the hilt), and that mushroom pommel keeps it in your hand while it's rotating. If one edge gets dull, you can easily flip the sword by feel and use the other edge.

Neat piece. It's a design from c.1200 BCE, and the original is in the British Museum, I believe.

Best,

F

[Rick]

A bit like a tulwar hilt .

[fearn]

Originally Posted by Rick

A bit like a tulwar hilt .

Yes, the thought crossed my mind. When I first got it, I was trying to figure out why a stabbing sword had a slashing hilt. Then I started trying to figure out the strokes it was capable of, and I deduced out the rest.

Best,

F

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by fearn

Hi Atlantia,

Here are some pics. The hilt is from Neil, and admittedly a bit speculative.

That said, I've learned something about the difference between bronze swords and steel swords by handling this piece. as you can see from the picture, the mushroom hilt presses into the hand, and you simply can't lunge with this sword, no matter how much it looks like a thrusting design.

Instead, it's primarily a slashing sword. The thing I realized is that bronze is softer than steel. Because of this, it will collect dings faster than steel, and it's quite useful to have a second sharp edge. The hilt is square in cross section, with rounded edges where the blade is. It's quite easy to spin the blade 180 degrees without looking at it (because you can feel where the blade is, due to those bronze edges on the hilt), and that mushroom pommel keeps it in your hand while it's rotating. If one edge gets dull, you can easily flip the sword by feel and use the other edge.

Neat piece. It's a design from c.1200 BCE, and the original is in the British Museum, I believe.

Best,

F

Hi Fearn,

I think he's done a great job. It looks fantastic.
I find these bronze weapons facinating. I bet 'fencing' with them was quite an art. They must be quite susceptible to buckling if caught by a glancing blow and not precisely edge-on.
Obviously the biggest surviving 'sample' of bronze swords and daggers are the ones from ancient Iran/Luristan etc, like mine. Even on my example (which is only a large dagger) there are lots of knicks to the edge and I've seen ones where the edges are really very worn and chipped. Also others where they were clearly resharpened which completely altered the profile.
Amazing that you can get a 3000+ year old bronze dagger or short sword for a comparitively little money.

When it would have still had it's hilt scales, the POB on my dagger would have been about an inch from the hilt. Where is it on your sword?

Best
Gene

[fearn]

The POB is about 7 inches forward of the hilt, a few inches back from the center of the sword (tip to pommel). In other words, it balances pretty much like a stick. It's pretty nimble, too.

Given how well one can turn the blade, I suspect that if you had to parry with it, you'd use the flat as rather than the edge.

As pure speculation, bronze sword fencing might have been something like Haitian machete fencing (e.g. These videos). They closely engage so that the opponent doesn't get much space to slip a strike by. That is, if they didn't use a shield. Of course, there are many ways to use a machete, and I'm sure there were many schools for using a bronze sword, too.

Best,

F