Whotsit Sabre?

kronckew · 12th January 2018, 03:00 PM

Just acquired, no dimensions yet, will post on arrival. Appears to be a flank officer's sabre from somewhere. Slightly odd blade etchings, lion head pommel, braided brass wire wound grip, decorated brass guard & languets, brass scabbard with decorated fittings. Any Ideas as to what country/ etc? appears to be late 18c-early 19c. Comments appreciated, thanks.

canos · 12th January 2018, 04:51 PM

i suppose England, about 1805.

kronckew · 12th January 2018, 06:44 PM

Thanks, I suspect it's designed around that time. It's slightly off in my mind for british tho. The lack of a backstrap on the grip was not usual but could have been a private purchase, the sturrup guard, while decorated brass is more 1796-ish or earlier, unperorated/slotted unlike the 1803 models, as is the full wire wrap. The blade side etch is also a bit odd. Looks well done. possibly a private purchase one made somewhere in the Raj.

If anyone has a photo of a similar one, feel free to post it and comment....

Norman McCormick · 12th January 2018, 08:23 PM

Hi Wayne,
I thought I'd seen this type of sabre somewhere before and unfortunately I am the bearer of bad tidings https://www.royalgunpowdermills.com/...N%2FA&item=328

My Regards,
Norman.

kronckew · 12th January 2018, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Wayne,
I thought I'd seen this type of sabre somewhere before and unfortunately I am the bearer of bad tidings https://www.royalgunpowdermills.com/...N%2FA&item=328

My Regards,
Norman.

Thanks for the info. not too bad tidings - i paid next to nothing for it. wonder who made it & when-ish - the blurb only says 'unknown' in many of it's boxes & 'very similar to indian copies' - the only indian ones i found online are variants on the 1803 model. close, but no cigar.

Norman McCormick · 12th January 2018, 11:25 PM

Hi Wayne,
I think this is an older repro 60's 70's, a company called HHandCO.com have it listed as S7 in their catalogue.
My Regards,
Norman.

kronckew · 13th January 2018, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Wayne,
I think this is an older repro 60's 70's, a company called HHandCO.com have it listed as S7 in their catalogue.
My Regards,
Norman.

Thanks, found it. Hassan and Hemandas & Co, Mumbai. look more reputable than windlass and deepeka.

it'll do for now.

kronckew · 18th January 2018, 08:22 PM

Just to finish, it arrived today, not half bad. seems well made, light at 674 grams, distal tapered springy 27 in. blade 1 1/4 in. wide. Feels fairly well balanced. Not sharp, about like a butter knife, so not HEMA legal.

The 'rust' on the photo was actually dried cosmoline or similar & cleaned off wth soapy water. The wire wound grip is solid, 4 2/2 in. well fitting scabbard has two decorated solid rings cast into the similarly decorated fitting. no markings. I leave it as an example of what to look out for if any more come up in future.

Caveat Emptor....

Hotspur · 20th January 2018, 11:35 AM

Late to this and surprisingly parallel to another discussion elsewhere.

I had become enamored with horsehead pommels a decade or so ago. In the process of collecting images, I had come across these flat bladed and circle etched examples. Apparently, fairly distant in time but in the past few years have been reborn by companies such as Universal Swords. The hilt castings on these fairly nice until comparing to period swords. The blades though should be an easy evidence to realize. I had been apprised of the reproductions during my adventures of appreciation. I am linking here my horse folder. Far from complete and kind of something down on my lists of harvesting. Also a side by side with a period sword. There is currently an Irish presentation sword on ebay listed by MDL, which may be the one sold through Christies some years ago.

Cheers

GC
A small lot of horses
https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...7X?usp=sharing

kronckew · 21st January 2018, 01:07 PM

Minor note: The current production that was found on a sales site named after the cult based wife of Zeus has the typical hex nut terminated pommel typical of the modern knock offs.

Mine is at least one with a properly peened pommel & the visible steel peen was cut after peening to match the lines of the horse's mane.

As appears to be the one in Hotspur's post above.

I avoid anything with a brass hex nut pommel termination like the plague.

12th January 2018, 03:00 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,187	Whotsit Sabre? Just acquired, no dimensions yet, will post on arrival. Appears to be a flank officer's sabre from somewhere. Slightly odd blade etchings, lion head pommel, braided brass wire wound grip, decorated brass guard & languets, brass scabbard with decorated fittings. Any Ideas as to what country/ etc? appears to be late 18c-early 19c. Comments appreciated, thanks. Attached Images

12th January 2018, 04:51 PM	#2
canos Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 28	Country i suppose England, about 1805.

12th January 2018, 06:44 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,187	Thanks, I suspect it's designed around that time. It's slightly off in my mind for british tho. The lack of a backstrap on the grip was not usual but could have been a private purchase, the sturrup guard, while decorated brass is more 1796-ish or earlier, unperorated/slotted unlike the 1803 models, as is the full wire wrap. The blade side etch is also a bit odd. Looks well done. possibly a private purchase one made somewhere in the Raj. If anyone has a photo of a similar one, feel free to post it and comment.... Last edited by kronckew; 12th January 2018 at 07:57 PM.

20th January 2018, 11:35 AM	#9
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 499	Late to this and surprisingly parallel to another discussion elsewhere. I had become enamored with horsehead pommels a decade or so ago. In the process of collecting images, I had come across these flat bladed and circle etched examples. Apparently, fairly distant in time but in the past few years have been reborn by companies such as Universal Swords. The hilt castings on these fairly nice until comparing to period swords. The blades though should be an easy evidence to realize. I had been apprised of the reproductions during my adventures of appreciation. I am linking here my horse folder. Far from complete and kind of something down on my lists of harvesting. Also a side by side with a period sword. There is currently an Irish presentation sword on ebay listed by MDL, which may be the one sold through Christies some years ago. Cheers GC A small lot of horses https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...7X?usp=sharing Attached Images

12th January 2018, 08:23 PM	#4
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,598	Hi Wayne, I thought I'd seen this type of sabre somewhere before and unfortunately I am the bearer of bad tidings https://www.royalgunpowdermills.com/...N%2FA&item=328 My Regards, Norman.

12th January 2018, 11:25 PM	#6
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,598	Hi Wayne, I think this is an older repro 60's 70's, a company called HHandCO.com have it listed as S7 in their catalogue. My Regards, Norman.

18th January 2018, 08:22 PM	#8
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,187	Just to finish, it arrived today, not half bad. seems well made, light at 674 grams, distal tapered springy 27 in. blade 1 1/4 in. wide. Feels fairly well balanced. Not sharp, about like a butter knife, so not HEMA legal. The 'rust' on the photo was actually dried cosmoline or similar & cleaned off wth soapy water. The wire wound grip is solid, 4 2/2 in. well fitting scabbard has two decorated solid rings cast into the similarly decorated fitting. no markings. I leave it as an example of what to look out for if any more come up in future. Caveat Emptor....

21st January 2018, 01:07 PM	#10
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,187	Minor note: The current production that was found on a sales site named after the cult based wife of Zeus has the typical hex nut terminated pommel typical of the modern knock offs. Mine is at least one with a properly peened pommel & the visible steel peen was cut after peening to match the lines of the horse's mane. As appears to be the one in Hotspur's post above. I avoid anything with a brass hex nut pommel termination like the plague.