Balebang keris ?

[satsujinken]

This time I swear I do not use this forum for personal gain or advertisement, I just want your honest opinion

is it permissible to ask about a keris offered to me personally ? no ad in ebay or similar sites, just a friend offered his keris and I think it was a bit peculiar so I wanted to ask your opinion

if this was offensive or breaking any rules I did not aware of, I am sorry and I will take it down ASAP

back to the keris, He said this was Balebang dhapur, but as far as I know Balebang should only have 5 or 7 luks, whereas this particular specimen has 9 luks

any idea on tangguh ?

thanks
Donny

[Jean]

The dapur includes an ada-ada, kembang kacang, jalen, lambe gajah, pejetan, twin sogokan, tikel alis, sraweyan, and greneng so it looks to be Panimbal with one minor exception (single lambe gajah instead of twin).
The blade has an elegant shape and is well carved, it has some Mataram features but I am unable to tell if it is an old piece or not
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

The dapur includes an ada-ada, kembang kacang, jalen, lambe gajah, pejetan, twin sogokan, tikel alis, sraweyan, and greneng so it looks to be Panimbal with one minor exception (single lambe gajah instead of twin).
The blade has an elegant shape and is well carved, it has some Mataram features but I am unable to tell if it is an old piece or not
Regards

Well, i'd say it has some age Jean, but i seriously doubt it actually dates back to the Mataram era.
I agree that it seems a well formed blade and for me personally i am less interested in the specific "proper" dhapur name since it is generally only a platform for debate about shifting names of such things.
If this were offered to me for the right price i might well purchase it. someone should to save it from that creeping rust before it is too late.
If it were mine i might swap out that mendak. I could be wrong, but it doesn't look correct for that Surakarta hilt.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Jean

The dapur includes an ada-ada, kembang kacang, jalen, lambe gajah, pejetan, twin sogokan, tikel alis, sraweyan, and greneng so it looks to be Panimbal with one minor exception (single lambe gajah instead of twin).
The blade has an elegant shape and is well carved, it has some Mataram features but I am unable to tell if it is an old piece or not
Regards

Yes, look also my eyes like a Panimbal blade, about average. "New Mataram"? This blade need care but is in very good condition. Would change maybe not only the mendak but maybe also the hilt. Would like to see better pictures.

Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Very nicely rusted, a good job.

Some elements of this blade display very competent craftsmanship, some do not.

The full-length, very distinct odo2 is something I do not expect to see in a Mataram style of blade.

The jejeran is a Central Jawa style, but I doubt that it was carved in Central Jawa --- doubt only, I'd need to see the cecekan more clearly to be more certain of what I'm looking at.

Mendak East Jawa.

[satsujinken]

thank you for the inputs

I will take this into consideration about this keris
and I do agree this was supposed to be panimbal rather than balebang

and I will try to ask pictures of sirah cecek ...

Donny

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Well, i'd say it has some age Jean, but i seriously doubt it actually dates back to the Mataram era.
I agree that it seems a well formed blade and for me personally i am less interested in the specific "proper" dhapur name since it is generally only a platform for debate about shifting names of such things.

Hello David,
By "some Mataram features" I only meant the square pejetan and sharp sirah cecak but of course I agree that the blade does not date from an old Mataram period.
Personally I believe that trying to identify the type of dapur of an old Javanese blade (not the case with this one) is important as each dapur has its own significance for the owner as the pamor pattern. A dapur conforming to the Central Java pakem shows that the pande followed the tradition so it constitutes a quality indicator for the blade IMO.
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello David,
By "some Mataram features" I only meant the square pejetan and sharp sirah cecak but of course I agree that the blade does not date from an old Mataram period.
Personally I believe that trying to identify the type of dapur of an old Javanese blade (not the case with this one) is important as each dapur has its own significance for the owner as the pamor pattern. A dapur conforming to the Central Java pakem shows that the pande followed the tradition so it constitutes a quality indicator for the blade IMO.
Regards

Jean, i believe you have taken my post as argument when my intention was to agree with you. Note the winking emoticon.
I also was not dismissing the importance of dhapur, only noting that there is often much argument over the proper names for different dhapurs. If one is dealing with keraton level blades and has the pakem for said keraton as a guide this can indeed be very helpful information.