Appreciation of Palembang hilt

Newsteel · 19th February 2009, 10:25 AM

Has been a while not logging in here due to work restriction.
I thought I can share this lovely ivory Palembang hilt. Still looking crisp but yet have some age patina to it. Probably not very old. I was actually impressed by the deep, small and detail carvings. Was told that the art of carving like this is as good as 'dead' there. Interestingly, I also noticed that the buah pinang is actually carved from a separate ivory and joined together in such delicate manner that both fits very well and tight. Very smart and beautifully executed since the carver has restriction of ivory material (maybe?).

David · 19th February 2009, 02:54 PM

Lovely!

ferrylaki · 20th February 2009, 05:10 AM

very lovely

Jussi M. · 20th February 2009, 05:55 AM

Very beautiful.

I wonder how much it takes time to make something like this?

Thanks,

J.

Marcokeris · 20th February 2009, 09:58 AM

Good work!

asomotif · 20th February 2009, 03:16 PM

I

Quote:

wonder how much it takes time to make something like this?

Very nice hilt.
I heard that in Indonesia carvers are using dental drills.
This one is very finely carved.
I assume that this is real manual work.

But can someone confirm this ?

Best regards,
Willem

David · 20th February 2009, 06:14 PM

Willem, i'm not sure how one would ever know for sure unless they knew the carver. Personally i think tools are just that. I don't think it lessens the artistry of the work if modern tools are involved as long as the artist knows how to properly use them.

BluErf · 22nd February 2009, 05:07 AM

I agree with David!

It's the skills! though good tools would help artists achieve greater heights.

Newsteel · 23rd February 2009, 01:48 AM

A friend ever brought a similar ivory piece to a late mastercarver in Kelantan (northern Malaysia) and hope to seek some pointers how a mranggi would achieved something like this. The explaination he got was pretty simple - he (the mranggi or carver) is very skillful and definite got his special knife or tools in order to carve like that.

asomotif · 24th February 2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

definite got his special knife or tools in order to carve like that.

What I am looking for is some differences between carving the old way and 'carving' with dental / drills.

This specific hilt has some very fine lines and curls that end 'pointed'.
I assume that with only a dental drill this would not be possible... ?

lemmythesmith · 24th February 2009, 11:09 PM

Hi all, I'm carving a Bali togogan in ivory at the moment and I use a dremel with dental type burrs to get the outline and then refine any cuts (if they need a pointed end to them) with small knives and awls. Newsteel-that hilt is fantastic!

asomotif · 24th February 2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

I'm carving a Bali togogan in ivory

Dear Lemmy (?),

Interesting. could you post some pictures of your carving.
I think it would be intersting to see what a dermel can do and what traditional tools than can add to that.

Best regards,
Willem

David · 25th February 2009, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

What I am looking for is some differences between carving the old way and 'carving' with dental / drills.

This specific hilt has some very fine lines and curls that end 'pointed'.
I assume that with only a dental drill this would not be possible... ?

Willem, i don't imagine that any good modern craftsman would only use a dremel when doing this type of work. I am fairly sure that some hand tools would also come into play.

lemmythesmith · 25th February 2009, 11:41 PM

Hi Willem, here's some snaps of how he looks roughed out with an angle grinder, dremel with milling cutters/burrs and then with a little work with knives. I still have some to do with the dremel yet-I've been trying to get his hands right using fine blades to make his fingers/pancanaka thumb.

He's 125mm overall including selut.

Rick · 26th February 2009, 12:16 AM

Lemmy, you blow my mind .

WoW !

asomotif · 26th February 2009, 09:37 AM

Lemmy,

Impressive already even in this unfinished state.
Would love to see the further prorgess in due time.

The selut is silver ?

Best regards,
Willem

lemmythesmith · 26th February 2009, 06:39 PM

Thanks guys!!

Yes, the selut is silver-the stones will be star rubies. Still a lot of work to do on this keris!

Rick · 27th February 2009, 02:43 AM

Lemmy, it would be interesting if you started a thread on this project and kept us updated .

David · 27th February 2009, 04:24 AM

Yes, please!

asomotif · 27th February 2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

started a thread on this project

Yes please

BluErf · 13th March 2009, 05:04 PM

Lemmy, is that your hamster on your avatar!? Is it real?

lemmythesmith · 13th March 2009, 09:37 PM

Hi Bluerf, that's a photo I was emailed-originally titled "I do think it will fit" it's not been photoshopped, a hamster I had could "pouch" a full pecan nut with shell. He looked pretty much like the one in the avatar!!

19th February 2009, 10:25 AM	#1
Newsteel Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 132	Appreciation of Palembang hilt Has been a while not logging in here due to work restriction. I thought I can share this lovely ivory Palembang hilt. Still looking crisp but yet have some age patina to it. Probably not very old. I was actually impressed by the deep, small and detail carvings. Was told that the art of carving like this is as good as 'dead' there. Interestingly, I also noticed that the buah pinang is actually carved from a separate ivory and joined together in such delicate manner that both fits very well and tight. Very smart and beautifully executed since the carver has restriction of ivory material (maybe?). Attached Images

25th February 2009, 11:41 PM	#14
lemmythesmith Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 93	Hi Willem, here's some snaps of how he looks roughed out with an angle grinder, dremel with milling cutters/burrs and then with a little work with knives. I still have some to do with the dremel yet-I've been trying to get his hands right using fine blades to make his fingers/pancanaka thumb. He's 125mm overall including selut. Attached Images

19th February 2009, 02:54 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,125	Lovely!

20th February 2009, 05:10 AM	#3
ferrylaki Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 285	very lovely

20th February 2009, 05:55 AM	#4
Jussi M. Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 235	Very beautiful. I wonder how much it takes time to make something like this? Thanks, J.

20th February 2009, 09:58 AM	#5
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Good work!

20th February 2009, 06:14 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,125	Willem, i'm not sure how one would ever know for sure unless they knew the carver. Personally i think tools are just that. I don't think it lessens the artistry of the work if modern tools are involved as long as the artist knows how to properly use them.

22nd February 2009, 05:07 AM	#8
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I agree with David! It's the skills! though good tools would help artists achieve greater heights.

23rd February 2009, 01:48 AM	#9
Newsteel Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 132	A friend ever brought a similar ivory piece to a late mastercarver in Kelantan (northern Malaysia) and hope to seek some pointers how a mranggi would achieved something like this. The explaination he got was pretty simple - he (the mranggi or carver) is very skillful and definite got his special knife or tools in order to carve like that.

24th February 2009, 11:09 PM	#11
lemmythesmith Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 93	Hi all, I'm carving a Bali togogan in ivory at the moment and I use a dremel with dental type burrs to get the outline and then refine any cuts (if they need a pointed end to them) with small knives and awls. Newsteel-that hilt is fantastic!

26th February 2009, 12:16 AM	#15
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Lemmy, you blow my mind . WoW !

26th February 2009, 09:37 AM	#16
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	Lemmy, Impressive already even in this unfinished state. Would love to see the further prorgess in due time. The selut is silver ? Best regards, Willem

26th February 2009, 06:39 PM	#17
lemmythesmith Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 93	Thanks guys!! Yes, the selut is silver-the stones will be star rubies. Still a lot of work to do on this keris!

27th February 2009, 02:43 AM	#18
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Lemmy, it would be interesting if you started a thread on this project and kept us updated .

27th February 2009, 04:24 AM	#19
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,125	Yes, please!

13th March 2009, 05:04 PM	#21
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Lemmy, is that your hamster on your avatar!? Is it real?

13th March 2009, 09:37 PM	#22
lemmythesmith Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 93	Hi Bluerf, that's a photo I was emailed-originally titled "I do think it will fit" it's not been photoshopped, a hamster I had could "pouch" a full pecan nut with shell. He looked pretty much like the one in the avatar!!