Need help! Keris blade with chinese characters!

Maurice · 13th February 2010, 10:35 PM

I am not used to be around in the keris warung, but a very good friend asked me a favour. This one is about Chinese characters on the blade.
He is not yet known with the forum, so he asked me, to ask you guys on the forum for information.

He wants to know information on the chinese characters on the blade of this keris. As he knows that the chinese were very well represented in indonesia, he thinks this blade could be a special one.
He would like to hear all your opinions and references of such blades in books.
The length of the keris by the way is 35 cm (13,78 inches).

Thanks,
Maurice

Sajen · 14th February 2010, 11:47 AM

Hi Maurice,

please look this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11167

It seems that the inscription is worked in the same technic. But the the blade you show is an old blade.

Regards,

Detlef

BluErf · 14th February 2010, 02:09 PM

Hi,

The characters seem nonsensical. None of the words are even proper Chinese characters.

BluErf · 14th February 2010, 02:10 PM

Ok, maybe one character is proper -"雷" --> thunder.

Rick · 14th February 2010, 05:07 PM

I suspect these two sorta plain old blades got 'fancied up' to go to market .

A. G. Maisey · 14th February 2010, 11:02 PM

Kai Wee, I tend to agree with you.

I have already referred images of this blade to two native speakers of Chinese, one who uses Cantonese, the other Mandarin. Both said that what they were looking at made no sense.

Currently the images have been sent to an acquaintance who works in classical Chinese literature at a Chinese university, and is recognised as one of the world's foremost authorities on archaic Chinese scripts. I do not know if he has, or will , receive my request for assistance, and if he does it will probably be some time before he gets back to me.

I have a tombak blade that was given to me under paranormal circumstances --- don't ask, I will not repeat the story --- that is inscribed with similar script and was regarded by its previous owner as having extremely high talismanic value. The script on this blade reads ( or is accepted as reading):-

"Big Man Sam Po Kong"

Sam Po Kong is a name that refers to a Chinese temple in Semarang that has been built around an original Mesjid, supposedly constructed by Cheng Ho, the famous Chinese Islamic admiral who visited Jawa in the 15th century. The local name for Cheng Ho is Sam Po Kong. The mesjid was built at a place where one of Cheng Ho's commanders took ill, and was cured, and which was originally a pile of stones, or perhaps a stone cave, and was known as "Gedung Batu" . The Sam Po Kong temple still has the alternate name of Gedung Batu ---stone building.

However, most, if not all historians do not accept this story and doubt that Cheng Ho ever landed at Semarang, and that the local Sam Po Kong is actually a composite of three other Chinese travellers known as the "Three Great Men" --- Sam Po Thai Djien --- who were probably merchants.

In any case, many Chinese people in North and East Jawa do believe the story, and talismans that can be associated with Sam Po Kong (Cheng Ho, Zheng Ho) are held to have very high value. In any culture, belief creates fact, so no matter what the actuality may be, the fact is that Sam Po Kong talismans carry a very high taslismanic value.

And yes, this is an old blade that has been enhanced.

Maurice · 15th February 2010, 12:39 AM

Thank you all so much for your effords.
I hope we will find out finally, if these characters will make some sense, or not.
Thank you mr Maisey for the very detailed explanation, and I hope we will get feedback of the acquaintance who works in classical Chinese literature at a Chinese university.

I hope we will find out till the bottom finally.

Best regards,
Maurice

13th February 2010, 10:35 PM	#1
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,346	Need help! Keris blade with chinese characters! I am not used to be around in the keris warung, but a very good friend asked me a favour. This one is about Chinese characters on the blade. He is not yet known with the forum, so he asked me, to ask you guys on the forum for information. He wants to know information on the chinese characters on the blade of this keris. As he knows that the chinese were very well represented in indonesia, he thinks this blade could be a special one. He would like to hear all your opinions and references of such blades in books. The length of the keris by the way is 35 cm (13,78 inches). Thanks, Maurice Attached Images

14th February 2010, 11:02 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Kai Wee, I tend to agree with you. I have already referred images of this blade to two native speakers of Chinese, one who uses Cantonese, the other Mandarin. Both said that what they were looking at made no sense. Currently the images have been sent to an acquaintance who works in classical Chinese literature at a Chinese university, and is recognised as one of the world's foremost authorities on archaic Chinese scripts. I do not know if he has, or will , receive my request for assistance, and if he does it will probably be some time before he gets back to me. I have a tombak blade that was given to me under paranormal circumstances --- don't ask, I will not repeat the story --- that is inscribed with similar script and was regarded by its previous owner as having extremely high talismanic value. The script on this blade reads ( or is accepted as reading):- "Big Man Sam Po Kong" Sam Po Kong is a name that refers to a Chinese temple in Semarang that has been built around an original Mesjid, supposedly constructed by Cheng Ho, the famous Chinese Islamic admiral who visited Jawa in the 15th century. The local name for Cheng Ho is Sam Po Kong. The mesjid was built at a place where one of Cheng Ho's commanders took ill, and was cured, and which was originally a pile of stones, or perhaps a stone cave, and was known as "Gedung Batu" . The Sam Po Kong temple still has the alternate name of Gedung Batu ---stone building. However, most, if not all historians do not accept this story and doubt that Cheng Ho ever landed at Semarang, and that the local Sam Po Kong is actually a composite of three other Chinese travellers known as the "Three Great Men" --- Sam Po Thai Djien --- who were probably merchants. In any case, many Chinese people in North and East Jawa do believe the story, and talismans that can be associated with Sam Po Kong (Cheng Ho, Zheng Ho) are held to have very high value. In any culture, belief creates fact, so no matter what the actuality may be, the fact is that Sam Po Kong talismans carry a very high taslismanic value. And yes, this is an old blade that has been enhanced. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 14th February 2010 at 11:15 PM.

14th February 2010, 11:47 AM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,779	Hi Maurice, please look this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11167 It seems that the inscription is worked in the same technic. But the the blade you show is an old blade. Regards, Detlef

14th February 2010, 02:09 PM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi, The characters seem nonsensical. None of the words are even proper Chinese characters.

14th February 2010, 02:10 PM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Ok, maybe one character is proper -"雷" --> thunder.

14th February 2010, 05:07 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I suspect these two sorta plain old blades got 'fancied up' to go to market .

15th February 2010, 12:39 AM	#7
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,346	Thank you all so much for your effords. I hope we will find out finally, if these characters will make some sense, or not. Thank you mr Maisey for the very detailed explanation, and I hope we will get feedback of the acquaintance who works in classical Chinese literature at a Chinese university. I hope we will find out till the bottom finally. Best regards, Maurice