LUMAD KRIS

tanaruz · 15th August 2020, 02:19 PM

Hi friends,

From my father's collection: a kris from the Subanen tribe in Mindanao (Zamboanga del Sur). Hoof designed pommel. Hilt and scabbard with 'nylon-like' rope and rope.

Note: owned by a princess of the tribe (as claimed).

Regards

Yves

Ian · 15th August 2020, 02:52 PM

Hi Yves:

That's an interesting provenance.

The blade is probably Maguindanao in manufacture, like many Lumad kris. It has a very dark patina and appears to be quite old--I think it is from the 19th C. Is there anything about this sword and scabbard that specifically indicates links to the Subanen tribe?

Ian.

Battara · 15th August 2020, 08:45 PM

And may we please see better pictures?

Rick · 15th August 2020, 09:46 PM

This may help with improving picture quality.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...aphing+Weapons

Battara · 16th August 2020, 02:53 AM

This might also help.

From these pictures it looks like a Maguindanao scabbard and blade, but more in line with the 1950s or later.

tanaruz · 16th August 2020, 11:50 AM

Hi friends,

Here are additional pictures of the blade. While holding and taking new pictures, I have noticed that the supposedly hilt wrap is not 'nylon' or something. On closer inspection (with a magnifying glass)- I can see that it's some sort of fine 'rattan' or any other twine (that is a first to me). The shiny effect on this material (because of age) make it looks nylon. And of course, the fine rope on the scabbard.

Provenance: according to my father, it came from the Subanen tribe (along with a spear- which head is made of BRASS-to ward off evil?) and used by a female shaman. The length is the wood for the spear is very short (only for a female's normal height). I will post its picture as I get them (they're in my father's gallery in the province).

This kris is allegedly owned by a princess (which i cannot post her name). It was a field collection.

This kris may have been of Maguindanaoan origin and it found its way to the Subanen tribe.

Regards

Yves

Ian · 16th August 2020, 03:32 PM

Yves,

Thanks for the additional pictures. They are quite dark and with the heavy patina on the blade it is hard to see details. I've taken a coupe of your pictures and lightened them up by adjusting their contrast and exposure properties. This shows a laminated pattern towards the tip and what appears to be a hardened edge. Near the hilt one can see a general dark patina and some very fine pitting which suggests to me that this blade has some age, consistent with my earlier estimate of 19th C.

In looking at these new pictures, I'm debating whether this blade is Sulu in manufacture, rather than Maguindanao. The dark patina and some corrosion make it difficult to determine details of the gangya area and confidently say where it is from. Twin asang asang are more commonly seen on Sulu than Maguindanao kris.

The fine rattan found on this hilt is, I believe, also used in wrapping some of the scabbards coming from Zamboanga.

Ian
.

Battara · 17th August 2020, 01:16 AM

Thank you Ian. Looks a little different from what I first saw. I'm not sure I agree with you on the double versus single clamp for Maguindanao and Sulu, but as I see the back edge of the ganga, the pattern I must now say does not look very Maguindanao, but also not old Sulu either.

The front of the ganga looks more like modern Sulu pieces than older ones. Hard to say for sure though.

Only thing for sure is that the scabbard is Maguindanao, but the blade now confuses me.

xasterix · 17th August 2020, 05:40 AM

I don't think this is a "Lumad kris." This is a Bangsamoro kris that just happens to be owned by a Lumad princess.

For reference, here's a Lumad kris from the Bagobo with a Tugaya replacement scabbard.

tanaruz · 17th August 2020, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xasterix

I don't think this is a "Lumad kris." This is a Bangsamoro kris that just happens to be owned by a Lumad princess.

For reference, here's a Lumad kris from the Bagobo with a Tugaya replacement scabbard.

Hello,

Yes, it may well be a Bangsamoro kris- who was formerly owned by a princess. The theme title of the post ' lumad kris'- only mean to me to indicate that the provenance/collected and originated from- in terms of collecting from, is from the Subanen tribe.

Of course, the kris is undoubtedly Bangsamoro.

Yves

15th August 2020, 02:19 PM	#1
tanaruz Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 267	LUMAD KRIS Hi friends, From my father's collection: a kris from the Subanen tribe in Mindanao (Zamboanga del Sur). Hoof designed pommel. Hilt and scabbard with 'nylon-like' rope and rope. Note: owned by a princess of the tribe (as claimed). Regards Yves Attached Images

16th August 2020, 02:53 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	This might also help. From these pictures it looks like a Maguindanao scabbard and blade, but more in line with the 1950s or later. Attached Images

16th August 2020, 11:50 AM	#6
tanaruz Member Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 267	LUMAD KRIS Hi friends, Here are additional pictures of the blade. While holding and taking new pictures, I have noticed that the supposedly hilt wrap is not 'nylon' or something. On closer inspection (with a magnifying glass)- I can see that it's some sort of fine 'rattan' or any other twine (that is a first to me). The shiny effect on this material (because of age) make it looks nylon. And of course, the fine rope on the scabbard. Provenance: according to my father, it came from the Subanen tribe (along with a spear- which head is made of BRASS-to ward off evil?) and used by a female shaman. The length is the wood for the spear is very short (only for a female's normal height). I will post its picture as I get them (they're in my father's gallery in the province). This kris is allegedly owned by a princess (which i cannot post her name). It was a field collection. This kris may have been of Maguindanaoan origin and it found its way to the Subanen tribe. Regards Yves Attached Images

16th August 2020, 03:32 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Yves, Thanks for the additional pictures. They are quite dark and with the heavy patina on the blade it is hard to see details. I've taken a coupe of your pictures and lightened them up by adjusting their contrast and exposure properties. This shows a laminated pattern towards the tip and what appears to be a hardened edge. Near the hilt one can see a general dark patina and some very fine pitting which suggests to me that this blade has some age, consistent with my earlier estimate of 19th C. In looking at these new pictures, I'm debating whether this blade is Sulu in manufacture, rather than Maguindanao. The dark patina and some corrosion make it difficult to determine details of the gangya area and confidently say where it is from. Twin asang asang are more commonly seen on Sulu than Maguindanao kris. The fine rattan found on this hilt is, I believe, also used in wrapping some of the scabbards coming from Zamboanga. Ian . Attached Images Last edited by Ian; 16th August 2020 at 03:49 PM.

17th August 2020, 05:40 AM	#9
xasterix Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 663	I don't think this is a "Lumad kris." This is a Bangsamoro kris that just happens to be owned by a Lumad princess. For reference, here's a Lumad kris from the Bagobo with a Tugaya replacement scabbard. Attached Images

15th August 2020, 02:52 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,203	Hi Yves: That's an interesting provenance. The blade is probably Maguindanao in manufacture, like many Lumad kris. It has a very dark patina and appears to be quite old--I think it is from the 19th C. Is there anything about this sword and scabbard that specifically indicates links to the Subanen tribe? Ian.

15th August 2020, 08:45 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	And may we please see better pictures?

15th August 2020, 09:46 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	This may help with improving picture quality. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...aphing+Weapons

17th August 2020, 01:16 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Thank you Ian. Looks a little different from what I first saw. I'm not sure I agree with you on the double versus single clamp for Maguindanao and Sulu, but as I see the back edge of the ganga, the pattern I must now say does not look very Maguindanao, but also not old Sulu either. The front of the ganga looks more like modern Sulu pieces than older ones. Hard to say for sure though. Only thing for sure is that the scabbard is Maguindanao, but the blade now confuses me.