3rd February 2014, 04:30 AM | #1 |
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Tulwar with ladder pattern
Here for comment is a tulwar with a pattern-welded ladder blade. The blade is 29 inches long, 34 inches overall. The gold overlay on the handle is about 80 percent intact. The scabbard shows a lot of wear but it is pretty much all there Any ideas on age? I'm thinking somewhere around the middle 1800s..........Dave.
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8th February 2014, 02:09 PM | #2 |
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Hi Dave,
I'm surprised that no-one has commented on this yet, let's hope our Indian experts see this soon and can supply you with an educated opinion something that I am sadly not qualified to do. Regards, Norman. |
13th February 2014, 07:56 PM | #3 |
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Odd Blade Patterns
Hi Dave, I finally found some photos of similar blades. Two are different areas of the same blade not as nice as yours but, of the same type of patterns. I've read I think by more than on author that Laddering can occur naturally?? I'm leaning toward the consistency of repeated blows causing the patterns. The third photo here is sort of like double laddering but surely caused by repeated blows needed to shape the arc in the blade. That's my guess for what it's worth. Steve
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13th February 2014, 08:41 PM | #4 |
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I would not refer to the pattern on these blades as "ladder pattern". Typically, a ladder pattern is on a wootz blade, with ladder "rungs" that stretch the length of the blade in a regular and repeating way. Dave's blade is not wootz. It is a pattern welded blade and while you do have a repeating pattern, it is not what I would consider a ladder pattern. I do believe the pattern created here is a manipulation of the layered blade. Same on a ladder pattern in wootz. It is manipulated through the forging process. It certainly takes a bit of skill to forge, fold, manipulate and hammer out a pattern welded blade where you get such a bold pattern. While not what I would consider as a ladder pattern blade, it is a lovely example of Indian pattern welding. As far as an estimation of age, I would guess Dave's tulwar to be early to mid 19th century.
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13th February 2014, 10:12 PM | #5 |
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Ron, Steve: Thanks for your input. I have heard that a ladder pattern should contain forty steps representing the forty steps to Allah. It seems when I count I get either 38, 39, or even 41. It's difficult on this blade because not all the steps are that easy to see. Also I don't know if the "true" ladder is strictly confined to wootz and I wish I could remember where it was stated that it also occurs on purpose in a layered blade....Dave
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14th February 2014, 10:02 AM | #6 |
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Agree with RSWORD. The blade is of mechanical damascus and laddering does not apply to this pattern. What appear to be ladders are part of the pattern.
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17th February 2014, 01:52 PM | #7 |
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I agree with the age estimate and mechanical pattern-welding, but it is a ladder pattern. There are but a few ways to make this effect and there is overlap between this and the wootz laddering technique.
Ric |
17th February 2014, 06:34 PM | #8 |
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Ric: Thanks for your input. I've always heard that a ladder pattern was a ladder pattern, wether it was in wootz or mechanical Damascus, That it wasn't just restricted to wootz blades.........Dave.
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17th February 2014, 09:00 PM | #9 |
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input
Hi Dave S,
Rics input inspired Me to look again. Our hilts are very similar, so, maybe they are related. Does your blade have any markings? One side on mine is fairly a fairly distinct pattern the other more blurred. Some photos what do you think? Steve Last edited by archer; 17th February 2014 at 09:02 PM. Reason: edit |
17th February 2014, 09:03 PM | #10 | |
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Quote:
It is certainly a ladder effect, but I do not see an overlap apart from "appearance!" of a ladder. The techniques are totally different. Can this really be called a ladder pattern? |
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17th February 2014, 11:40 PM | #11 | |
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18th February 2014, 01:15 PM | #12 | |
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18th February 2014, 11:17 PM | #13 | |
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20th February 2014, 03:31 AM | #14 | |
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25th February 2014, 04:53 PM | #15 | |
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To list the variables would be time consuming indeed, but they all come from the same base technique. I understand your point Alex...one of precision using the technique. Ric |
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