European 18th century sword for identification

Valjhun · 26th September 2008, 09:49 PM

Hi!

I've bought that on ebay recently. Not my area, but I haven't spent much

Can somebody identify it?

Atlantia · 26th September 2008, 09:53 PM

well, it looks like an early 18th c small sword thats had the blade snapped half way and recut.
The point is quite well done, which often means old as (in my experience) people who try and resharpen them these days do a terrible job.
I've seen similarly recut smallswords described as left handed parrying daggers, but I fear that might just be wishful thinking.

Regards
Gene

Norman McCormick · 26th September 2008, 10:58 PM

Hi Valjhun,
I agree with Gene, a cut down 18thC. smallsword. In a non throwaway society broken sword equals perfectly serviceable dagger.
Regards,
Norman.

fernando · 27th September 2008, 01:35 AM

Hi Valjhun,
Check for some little mark name, like Toledo, somewhere 'disguised' in the intrincate hilt decoration. But don't give it some much importance ... this is just a hint.
Fernando

Jim McDougall · 27th September 2008, 11:11 PM

While clearly of 'smallsword' style, this example seems to be a court or dress type piece intended to represent the 18th century smallswords in a neoclassic rococo style. In England there was apparantly some inclination toward what was termed Louis XIV style in art, furnishing etc. during the 19th century, and this cast sword seems that it might fall in that category.

The elaborate detail, unusual structural designs in the pas d'ane and the knucklebow do not correspond to any smallsword hilts carrying such designs in either Aylward ("The Smallsword in England" ,1945) or Norman, "The Rapier and Smallsword" (1980).

The blade also does not seem to correspond to typical smallsword blades of the 18th century, and its cut down status seems doubtful as any type of left hand dagger, as those fencing techniques were long gone even in the smallsword period as a rule. It is interesting though that it seems many broken swords were indeed made into knives with thier original hilts left as is.

A case in point were the huge M1913 Patton swords issued to U.S. cavalry, which actually never saw combat aside from some speculation concerning limited appearance in WWI combat regions. These were placed in stores with disbandment of mounted cavalry units, but later during WWII, many of these had the blades cut down but left in the huge steel bowl hilts to be used as combat knives.

"If ya dont waste nuthin, you dont want nuthin"

-Benjamin Franklin

All the best,
JIm

26th September 2008, 09:49 PM	#1
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	European 18th century sword for identification Hi! I've bought that on ebay recently. Not my area, but I haven't spent much Can somebody identify it? Attached Images

26th September 2008, 09:53 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	well, it looks like an early 18th c small sword thats had the blade snapped half way and recut. The point is quite well done, which often means old as (in my experience) people who try and resharpen them these days do a terrible job. I've seen similarly recut smallswords described as left handed parrying daggers, but I fear that might just be wishful thinking. Regards Gene

26th September 2008, 10:58 PM	#3
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,596	Hi Valjhun, I agree with Gene, a cut down 18thC. smallsword. In a non throwaway society broken sword equals perfectly serviceable dagger. Regards, Norman.

27th September 2008, 01:35 AM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Valjhun, Check for some little mark name, like Toledo, somewhere 'disguised' in the intrincate hilt decoration. But don't give it some much importance ... this is just a hint. Fernando

27th September 2008, 11:11 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,943	While clearly of 'smallsword' style, this example seems to be a court or dress type piece intended to represent the 18th century smallswords in a neoclassic rococo style. In England there was apparantly some inclination toward what was termed Louis XIV style in art, furnishing etc. during the 19th century, and this cast sword seems that it might fall in that category. The elaborate detail, unusual structural designs in the pas d'ane and the knucklebow do not correspond to any smallsword hilts carrying such designs in either Aylward ("The Smallsword in England" ,1945) or Norman, "The Rapier and Smallsword" (1980). The blade also does not seem to correspond to typical smallsword blades of the 18th century, and its cut down status seems doubtful as any type of left hand dagger, as those fencing techniques were long gone even in the smallsword period as a rule. It is interesting though that it seems many broken swords were indeed made into knives with thier original hilts left as is. A case in point were the huge M1913 Patton swords issued to U.S. cavalry, which actually never saw combat aside from some speculation concerning limited appearance in WWI combat regions. These were placed in stores with disbandment of mounted cavalry units, but later during WWII, many of these had the blades cut down but left in the huge steel bowl hilts to be used as combat knives. "If ya dont waste nuthin, you dont want nuthin" -Benjamin Franklin All the best, JIm