Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Miscellania
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 7th August 2015, 02:22 AM   #1
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,293
Smile Corsairs

Speaking of Pyrats
An unusual subject for marine paintings .
Constitution convoying an American Brig off N.Africa 1802 or so .
4x16 sight .
Artist Joe Hunt .
The poor quality picture is on purpose .
Arrived today .
Attached Images
 
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2015, 01:40 PM   #2
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Nice
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2015, 06:23 PM   #3
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,957
Default

Fantastic art Rick!!!
There really is nothing like these exciting maritime themes!!!

I always liked the term 'corsairs' immediately sounds thrilling, fast and formidable (a perfect name for the WWII Navy and Marine fighter planes).

Seeing this picture brings to mind the Mamluk sabres and the Moroccan and Algerian sa'ifs.......

Art is supposed to evoke emotion and passion........this one sure does!
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2015, 08:10 PM   #4
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,293
Cool Marine Art

Another passion of mine .

Corsairs, Sallee Rovers, Barbary Pirates .
Captured slaves chained to the Galley's oars .
Mounted with guns fore and aft; most warships avoided firing into them for fear of killing their own countrymen .
A fascinating time in history .
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2015, 08:57 PM   #5
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,186
Default

i always think of Mulay Ahmed Muhamed Raisuli the Magnificent, sherif of the Riffian Berbers and the true defender of the faithful, and of the blood of the prophet, peace be upon him - who oddly has a very scottish accent. and a BIG sword.


.

Last edited by fernando; 7th August 2015 at 09:02 PM. Reason: Photobucket links not adequate... even if blank
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th August 2015, 01:45 AM   #6
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,293
Smile

Och aye !

An hundred years later more or less ... Jefferson, then Teddy R. .
Nelson said of Decatur's work by sea: 'The greatest feat of our age .'

The more things change; the more they stay the same .
Who said that ?

Pyrats seem to persist despite the passage of the centuries ..
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th August 2015, 02:43 AM   #7
M ELEY
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,101
Default

Indeed, alive and well they still are, but they are perceived more as bandits these days. During the Golden Age, it could be argued that at least some of them had morals and a code they followed (Bartholomew Roberts comes to mind.)

Awesome picture, BTW, I love how the canvas stretches to allow such a beautiful sense of the vast sea! I'll have to look up that artist!
M ELEY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th August 2015, 09:01 AM   #8
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,897
Default

Who has seen the Tom Hanks movie "Mr. Phillips"?

Modern day piracy.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th August 2015, 01:08 PM   #9
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
...most warships avoided firing into them for fear of killing their own countrymen ...
You wouldn't guess how selective Bizantine pirates could be; with this portable barbecue they would only burn whom they aimed at .

.
Attached Images
 
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th August 2015, 01:57 PM   #10
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,186
Default

ah, greek fire. the lost weapon formulae.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th August 2015, 05:03 PM   #11
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,293
Default Listed

Quote:
Originally Posted by M ELEY
Awesome picture, BTW, I love how the canvas stretches to allow such a beautiful sense of the vast sea! I'll have to look up that artist!
Oil on Masonite .
I went through the art info sites (I don't belong to any) and got very limited information; couldn't even find a bio .
Did find some other examples there of his work .
For instance:
http://www.arcadja.com/auctions/en/h...artist/175660/
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th August 2015, 05:41 PM   #12
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,186
Default

some nice ships. great painting, rick.
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th August 2015, 05:54 PM   #13
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,293
Default

I was lucky .
The Seller had mistakenly listed this as a reproduction; therefor no one else bit .
They just don't do repros on Masonite and he is too obscure an artist to have had his work reproduced .
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th August 2015, 07:07 PM   #14
Shakethetrees
Member
 
Shakethetrees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 363
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
I was lucky .
The Seller had mistakenly listed this as a reproduction; therefor no one else bit .
They just don't do repros on Masonite and he is too obscure an artist to have had his work reproduced .
I hate to burst your bubble, but Masonite was not patented until 1924. It was first made in England in 1898 but was not really developed commercially until the patent.
Shakethetrees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th August 2015, 08:02 PM   #15
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,293
Default

What bubble ?
It's oil on Masonite painted in the latter part of the 20th century .

The date '1802' or so referred to the time period in our history .

Here's another piece of American maritime history from the walls .

Poor Wifey ..
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Rick; 8th August 2015 at 08:49 PM.
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th August 2015, 12:59 AM   #16
M ELEY
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,101
Default

Spectacular 3 masted brig! You've got great taste in maritime art, Rick!

Alan, haven't seen it yet, but I'm told it's great. Some controversy, though, about the real Phillips putting the crew in danger in the first place? I can't remember the details...

Jim, you're talkin' my language...sa'ifs, Berber sabers, Turkish kilich (spelling?). I always wondered if the bright 'barber pole' sails were accurate depictions of the Salee rovers? I've seen other paintings indicating such, and of course there's that infamous play with the 'pyrates' dressed in loud colors.
M ELEY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th August 2015, 05:19 AM   #17
Shakethetrees
Member
 
Shakethetrees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 363
Default

Great picture!

As far as the one painted on Masonite, I was under the impression you thought it was from the period, c.1800. My mistake.
Shakethetrees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th August 2015, 05:58 AM   #18
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,897
Default

Mark, I don't know the real story, only what I saw in the movie, but to my mind that ship was in danger from the moment it was routed through the area off Somalia where pirates operate.

The crew signed on for the trip.

The captain appeared to follow his guidelines to the letter.

What stuck in my mind was that it stripped any romantic ideas of piracy right away.

Back in the 1970's I met two men who had been involved in piracy in the South China Sea. What I saw in Captain Phillips aligned very closely with what these two men and their family told me.

There is nothing romantic about piracy. I don't believe there ever was.

PS --- sorry, I got the title wrong in my first post.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th August 2015, 03:34 PM   #19
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
... There is nothing romantic about piracy. I don't believe there ever was ...
I concur with your perspective, Alan. Although a fascinating theme, romantic piracy was only the strong prop of film industry ... to put it crudely.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th August 2015, 04:54 PM   #20
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,293
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakethetrees
Great picture!

As far as the one painted on Masonite, I was under the impression you thought it was from the period, c.1800. My mistake.

Thanks .
I'm not even sure that style of rendering was used in the early 19th C. .

The second painting is Flying Cloud done by the god of marine painters Montague Dawson; I feel blessed to have it .
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th August 2015, 08:50 PM   #21
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,623
Default

Hi Rick.
What a wonderful piece of art. Congratulations!!
Rick.
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th August 2015, 10:04 PM   #22
M ELEY
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NC, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,101
Default

With extremely rare exceptions, I agree with you, Alan, about piracy. I met a man my age (nearly 50) who was a Cambodian refuge in a camp with his mother and 4 siblings. He told me a horrific story of a man who came from upriver to the camp distraught and in anguish. He and his wife had been attacked by river pirates, who stole all of their belongings, abused his spouse and killed her in front of him. The man later took his own life in front of many in the camp. Seeing the pain on my friend's face, knowing what he saw (the man killing himself) at such a young age was devastating.

In my new novel, I do try to be fair, showing pirates for the low lives and treasure seekers that they were. However, many privateers and sailors serving their nation were sometimes accused of being plain old pirates for the sake of defaming their character (John Paul Jones, Sir Walter Raleigh, etc). Likewise, having read about the Caine mutiny, the harsh lives of sailors and the unfairness of the times, can one really wonder why 'going on the account' was so appealing?
M ELEY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th August 2015, 12:49 AM   #23
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,897
Default

I know very little about pirates Mark, but I've probably gained a little bit of general knowledge about them from occasional reading, film documentaries, and of course my first hand contact with the family in Jawa that I mentioned.

Your Cambodian story fits well with what I was told of the way that SE Asian pirates operate. The people I spoke with used small boats to get close to bigger boats at night, they would get one man on board, he'd lower a rope or rope ladder and the others would get on board then they'd take over the ship and anybody who offered resistance was immediately killed. In fact what one of these men said to me was that anybody who looked dangerous was killed. If they got the right type of ship they'd sell the entire ship off for scrap.

What I've read of the old-time historic pirates tends to make me think of them as sea-born motor-bike gangs:- intensely democratic, capable a high degree of brutality, totally untrustworthy. But compared with the life of an ordinary seaman of the time, especially one pressed into service, maybe they had a somewhat better life and possibly better long-term prospects --- if they survived.

It is often very difficult to understand and evaluate the ways and standards of people from a different time and place.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th August 2015, 01:07 AM   #24
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,293
Default

A friend of mine's Uncle was a M.M. Skipper; whenever they entered the S.China Sea 35 years ago or more they rigged huge hoses pumping high pressure seawater over the sides to discourage S.C.S. pirates from trying to board .
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th August 2015, 01:46 AM   #25
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,897
Default

Yeah, that's what they showed in Captain Phillips.

These bandits up north of and around Jawa don't just take big ships, they also love the the little privately owned sail boats that people cruise around the islands on. Been a number of Australians who have fallen victim one way or another.

One ludicrous thing that I half remember from a few years back involved an Australian boat being seized by Indonesian police and ordered into port for being in Indonesian waters and having undeclared/unregistered/prohibited firearms on board. The Aussies finished up in jail, eventually got out.

Who in their right mind would sail a 30 or 40 footer around that part of the world without an AK47 on board?
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th August 2015, 02:59 AM   #26
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,293
Default

Now, I could tell you a story about a neighbor of mine took an M60 and a couple of LAW's on his sailboat through there right after the V.N. war
on his way to H.K.
South China Sea; badass neighborhood .
Different set of morals out there for the last thousand years at least .
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th August 2015, 05:14 AM   #27
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,897
Default

Different set of moral standards in lots of places Rick, not just SCS.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th August 2015, 12:24 PM   #28
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
A friend of mine's Uncle was a M.M. Skipper; whenever they entered the S.China Sea 35 years ago or more they rigged huge hoses pumping high pressure seawater over the sides to discourage S.C.S. pirates from trying to board .
... Wasn't that resource installed in Captain Phillips ship? He did activate it, but they didn't care, though.
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th August 2015, 02:41 PM   #29
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,897
Default

Yes Fernando --- water hoses, and right --- the bad guys went straight through them.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th August 2015, 06:09 AM   #30
VANDOO
(deceased)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
Default

SEVERAL YEARS BACK THERE WAS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN FLORIDA OF DRUG SMUGGLERS TAKEING OVER PRIVATELY OWNED SAILBOATS AND KILLING WHOEVER WAS ON BOARD AND THEN USING THE BOATS TO SMUGGLE IN DRUGS. DURING THE SAME TIME LOTS OF OLD DC3 AIRCRAFT SHOWED UP ABANDONED ALL OVER FLORIDA. THEY WOULD JUST LEAVE THE AIRCRAFT AS ONE GOOD RUN WOULD EASILY PUT PLENTY OF MONEY IN THE BANK TO BUY MORE DRUGS AND CHEAP AIRPLANES LATER. THE SAILBOATS WERE SOMETIMES ABANDONED BUT OFTEN MIGHT MAKE MORE THAN ONE RUN AS THE SHIPS PAPERS WERE HARD TO GET LEGALLY SO OF MORE USE FOR BOATS WITH LESS CHANCE OF GETTING CAUGHT.
DURING THAT TIME ONE GROUP OF MERCENARIES APPLIED TO THE U.S. GOVERNMENT FOR LETTERS OF MARQUE TO ARM UP AND HUNT THE DRUG PIRATES AND KEEP THE MONEY, LOOT AND SHIPS, THEY WERE DENIED. THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE 1970'S THRU 1980'S BUT MAY STILL HAPPEN BUT WITH THE BORDERS WIDE OPEN A LARGE TRUCK IS QUICKER AND WORKS FINE.
VANDOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.