Keris owner seeks enlightenment

kino · 1st June 2006, 11:47 PM

I'm in a field in which I know next to nothing. I obtained this Keris because in my eyes it is a beauty. This Keris has a 12.5" blade. The hilt is 3.25". The blade is beefy, with no visible Pamur. It is missing the hilt cup. The hilt seems to be carved out of horn, but I'm not sure. It has a green tint and irridescent reds in the sunlight.

What part of the Indonesian Archipelago did it hail from? Dapur? What type of hilt is this? Type of hilt cup needed? Age?

The last photo is of todays early greeting.

ariel · 2nd June 2006, 12:37 AM

Mother of God!
The last pic is gorgeous.....

Rick · 2nd June 2006, 01:09 AM

The keris would appear to be of Sumatran origin Kino ; and a very nice one at that. It should have a cup type selut (?) with a short stem below .
Others who know more will doubtless come along and correct me or fill in the gaps I have left .

Say that isn't the plume from Mount Saint Helen's I see in the last picture , is it ?

RobT · 2nd June 2006, 03:17 AM

Hi all,
Wow Kino what a beauty! I would be interested to hear from the keris experts whether or not this is a panjang and if so, is it the shortest version of the panjang called a Bahari or is it the medium length version called Anak Alang.
Sincerely,
RobT

kino · 2nd June 2006, 03:23 AM

Ariel, you can thank Ma Nature for providing the scenery.

Rick, Mt.St. Helen is too far to be viewed from Seattle. Just an interesting shaped cloud.

Rob T. I thought it looked similar to a Panjang. Thanks.

Rick · 2nd June 2006, 03:29 AM

Kino , here is a shot of my Bahari ; it has quite a curve compared to your example . I must admit that the ukiran on yours looks much more handy for the fatal plunge than the one on mine which is a redress of an old blade .
This blade is a little over 13" .

Alam Shah · 2nd June 2006, 05:51 AM

AFAIK, the sumatran Bahari, Anak Alang, Alang, and most panjang shares the same ricikans (design) and is straight bladed (there are of course panjang with luks). The difference is the length.

Kino, A nice keris indeed. An Anak Alang category. Correct me if I'm wrong.

kino · 2nd June 2006, 01:15 PM

So it's Sumatran, Anak Alam that is missing a stemmed selut. What about the hilt? Could it be.........plastic? I have heard or read somewhere that sometimes plastic was used??

Rick, you also got a beauty there.

Alam Shah · 2nd June 2006, 01:52 PM

Kino, ....errr... it's an Anak Alang (not Alam

).

You can see VVV's panjang examples for some ideas for the pendokok (stemmed selut).
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...bum.php&page=3

For your hilt...hmmm... maybe should use the 'hot needle' test to see if it's plastic.

Rick · 2nd June 2006, 02:22 PM

Alam Shah , if I might ask ; the example I show is not a Bahari either ?
Can you offer some insights on it please ?
Thanks

Rick

Alam Shah · 2nd June 2006, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Alam Shah , if I might ask ; the example I show is not a Bahari either ?
Can you offer some insights on it please ?
Thanks
Rick

Afaik, the shortest blade length is known as Bahari (est. from 6" to 10"), then Anak Alang (est. from 10" to 14"), Alang (est. from 14" to 16"), then the panjang (est. from 16" and above.) These are just estimates.

If anyone have an exact measurement, kindly advise accordingly.

Rick · 2nd June 2006, 07:05 PM

Anak Alang it is then ; thank you Alam Shah .

This brings up another question for me though ; if all Panjang blades are straight (except for those with luks) is this keris then in fact a one luk Anak Alang ?

Alam Shah · 3rd June 2006, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Anak Alang it is then ; thank you Alam Shah .

This brings up another question for me though ; if all Panjang blades are straight (except for those with luks) is this keris then in fact a one luk Anak Alang ?

There are panjangs with luks too.
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_photo.php

Hmmm... Rick, your blade have all the characteristics of a Bahari/Anak Alang/Alang keris blade, however it's subtle bend is uncommon. I guess you could call it a one luk Anak Alang...

any objections?

Rick · 3rd June 2006, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

There are panjangs with luks too.
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_photo.php

Hmmm... Rick, your blade have all the characteristics of a Bahari/Anak Alang/Alang keris blade, however it's subtle bend is uncommon. I guess you could call it a one luk Anak Alang...

any objections?

No objections at all Alam Shah ; but I do not think that the curve is all that subtle .

I find this quite interesting because to the best of my recollection I have never seen another keris with one luk . I have a nice example of a simple Bugis keris that bears a slight curve ; I would not however call it a luk .

but this one ...

Alam Shah · 3rd June 2006, 02:23 AM

The sepokal blade of your bugis blade is designed that way. It's not an apple to apple comparison to a bahari/anak alang/alang class blade.

Bugis Sepokal blades does have an angular profile. My examples.
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/albums/...DSCF3893_1.jpg
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/albums/...6/DSCF5537.jpg

Hmmm... this angular profile does not qualify as a luk. On second thought, yours is an angular profile too, so NO luk for you.

Therefore Rick, yours is an Anak Alang (no luks).

Rick · 3rd June 2006, 02:47 AM

Well then I guess I'm out of 'luk' . LOL

Alam Shah · 3rd June 2006, 03:01 AM

Rick,
Btw, a unique Anak Alang blade you have there. Looks Minangkabau to me. Congrats! on owning such a piece. Your Bugis blade is a good stocky piece too.

You do have other pieces with 'luks'.

kino · 3rd June 2006, 03:18 AM

[QUOTE=Alam Shah]Kino, ....errr... it's an Anak Alang (not Alam

).

Alam Shah, like I said in the beginning of this thread "I'm in a field in which I know next to nothing". Thanks for correcting me

I think I'll forgo the hot needle test and live with not really knowing.

Anyone out there with a pendodok collecting dust, PM me and I'll give it a good home.

Rick · 3rd June 2006, 03:18 AM

Many thanks Alam Shah .

The Bugis keris was one of those bargains; an "unknown dagger" from the early days of ebay ; it is one of my favorite older kerises .
There is a feeling of 'intent' when it is held and it has cut me more than once when I have handled it to oil the blade no matter how carefully .

You may call me silly but I believe that it is well aware of being a weapon .

rahman · 3rd June 2006, 05:41 AM

IMHO, at 12.5 ins it is unmistakeably an Anak Alang.

The hilt seems to be a stylized Tapak Kuda (horse's hoof), but I admit I have not seen the top being horizontal. Most tend to either be vertical or at an incline.

The sheath is Minangkabau.

Very good condition of the ricikan

Congrats on a good acquisition

kai · 3rd June 2006, 09:06 AM

Quote:

I think I'll forgo the hot needle test and live with not really knowing.

You can easily do that test within the hilt's hole for the tang without (noticeable) damage!

Regards,
Kai

Alam Shah · 3rd June 2006, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kino

Anyone out there with a pendokok collecting dust, PM me and I'll give it a good home.

What's the diameter of the hilt and the tang? To ensure a good fit.

RobT · 4th June 2006, 03:33 AM

Alam Shah,
Thanks for the the measurments for Bahari, Anak Alang, and Alang. I had never heard of the Alang before so I am doubly grateful for that one.
Sincerely,
RobT

kino · 4th June 2006, 05:43 AM

Thank you for you comments, Rahman.

Aam Shah, I will give you the dimensions as soon as I can remove the hilt.
I'm having difficulty removing it. I will have to apply a little heat and some twisting and pulling.

nechesh · 6th June 2006, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Many thanks Alam Shah .

The Bugis keris was one of those bargains; an "unknown dagger" from the early days of ebay ; it is one of my favorite older kerises .
There is a feeling of 'intent' when it is held and it has cut me more than once when I have handled it to oil the blade no matter how carefully .

You may call me silly but I believe that it is well aware of being a weapon .

If i'm not mistaken, i think that blade bite me once too!

1st June 2006, 11:47 PM	#1
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Keris owner seeks enlightenment I'm in a field in which I know next to nothing. I obtained this Keris because in my eyes it is a beauty. This Keris has a 12.5" blade. The hilt is 3.25". The blade is beefy, with no visible Pamur. It is missing the hilt cup. The hilt seems to be carved out of horn, but I'm not sure. It has a green tint and irridescent reds in the sunlight. What part of the Indonesian Archipelago did it hail from? Dapur? What type of hilt is this? Type of hilt cup needed? Age? The last photo is of todays early greeting. Attached Images

2nd June 2006, 03:17 AM	#4
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 486	Bahari? Hi all, Wow Kino what a beauty! I would be interested to hear from the keris experts whether or not this is a panjang and if so, is it the shortest version of the panjang called a Bahari or is it the medium length version called Anak Alang. Sincerely, RobT

2nd June 2006, 03:29 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Kino , here is a shot of my Bahari ; it has quite a curve compared to your example . I must admit that the ukiran on yours looks much more handy for the fatal plunge than the one on mine which is a redress of an old blade . This blade is a little over 13" . Attached Images

2nd June 2006, 05:51 AM	#7
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Keris Bahari, Anak Alang, Alang... AFAIK, the sumatran Bahari, Anak Alang, Alang, and most panjang shares the same ricikans (design) and is straight bladed (there are of course panjang with luks). The difference is the length. Kino, A nice keris indeed. An Anak Alang category. Correct me if I'm wrong. Last edited by Alam Shah; 2nd June 2006 at 06:21 AM.

3rd June 2006, 02:23 AM	#15
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Correction... The sepokal blade of your bugis blade is designed that way. It's not an apple to apple comparison to a bahari/anak alang/alang class blade. Bugis Sepokal blades does have an angular profile. My examples. http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/albums/...DSCF3893_1.jpg http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/albums/...6/DSCF5537.jpg Hmmm... this angular profile does not qualify as a luk. On second thought, yours is an angular profile too, so NO luk for you. Therefore Rick, yours is an Anak Alang (no luks). Last edited by Alam Shah; 3rd June 2006 at 02:48 AM.

2nd June 2006, 12:37 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Mother of God! The last pic is gorgeous.....

2nd June 2006, 01:09 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	The keris would appear to be of Sumatran origin Kino ; and a very nice one at that. It should have a cup type selut (?) with a short stem below . Others who know more will doubtless come along and correct me or fill in the gaps I have left . Say that isn't the plume from Mount Saint Helen's I see in the last picture , is it ?

2nd June 2006, 03:23 AM	#5
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Ariel, you can thank Ma Nature for providing the scenery. Rick, Mt.St. Helen is too far to be viewed from Seattle. Just an interesting shaped cloud. Rob T. I thought it looked similar to a Panjang. Thanks.

2nd June 2006, 01:15 PM	#8
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	So it's Sumatran, Anak Alam that is missing a stemmed selut. What about the hilt? Could it be.........plastic? I have heard or read somewhere that sometimes plastic was used?? Rick, you also got a beauty there.

2nd June 2006, 01:52 PM	#9
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Kino, ....errr... it's an Anak Alang (not Alam ). You can see VVV's panjang examples for some ideas for the pendokok (stemmed selut). http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...bum.php&page=3 For your hilt...hmmm... maybe should use the 'hot needle' test to see if it's plastic.

2nd June 2006, 02:22 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Alam Shah , if I might ask ; the example I show is not a Bahari either ? Can you offer some insights on it please ? Thanks Rick

2nd June 2006, 07:05 PM	#12
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Anak Alang it is then ; thank you Alam Shah . This brings up another question for me though ; if all Panjang blades are straight (except for those with luks) is this keris then in fact a one luk Anak Alang ?

3rd June 2006, 02:47 AM	#16
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Well then I guess I'm out of 'luk' . LOL

3rd June 2006, 03:01 AM	#17
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Rick, Btw, a unique Anak Alang blade you have there. Looks Minangkabau to me. Congrats! on owning such a piece. Your Bugis blade is a good stocky piece too. You do have other pieces with 'luks'. Last edited by Alam Shah; 3rd June 2006 at 11:32 AM. Reason: spelling...

3rd June 2006, 03:18 AM	#18
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	[QUOTE=Alam Shah]Kino, ....errr... it's an Anak Alang (not Alam ). Alam Shah, like I said in the beginning of this thread "I'm in a field in which I know next to nothing". Thanks for correcting me I think I'll forgo the hot needle test and live with not really knowing. Anyone out there with a pendodok collecting dust, PM me and I'll give it a good home.

3rd June 2006, 03:18 AM	#19
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,290	Many thanks Alam Shah . The Bugis keris was one of those bargains; an "unknown dagger" from the early days of ebay ; it is one of my favorite older kerises . There is a feeling of 'intent' when it is held and it has cut me more than once when I have handled it to oil the blade no matter how carefully . You may call me silly but I believe that it is well aware of being a weapon .

3rd June 2006, 05:41 AM	#20
rahman Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 84	IMHO, at 12.5 ins it is unmistakeably an Anak Alang. The hilt seems to be a stylized Tapak Kuda (horse's hoof), but I admit I have not seen the top being horizontal. Most tend to either be vertical or at an incline. The sheath is Minangkabau. Very good condition of the ricikan Congrats on a good acquisition

4th June 2006, 03:33 AM	#23
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 486	Thanks for the measurements Alam Shah, Thanks for the the measurments for Bahari, Anak Alang, and Alang. I had never heard of the Alang before so I am doubly grateful for that one. Sincerely, RobT

4th June 2006, 05:43 AM	#24
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Thank you for you comments, Rahman. Aam Shah, I will give you the dimensions as soon as I can remove the hilt. I'm having difficulty removing it. I will have to apply a little heat and some twisting and pulling.