Lungguh Wilah?

JustYS · 13th December 2019, 07:12 AM

Dear All,

I’ve stumbled to an old article about Keris makers from an Indonesian magazine (Tempo, 2011). In one of the paragraph (see attachment), about a keris maker named Sukamdi the article mentioned:

“Finally he figured it out the telltale of good quality Keris. It lies on the Condong Leleh and Lungguh Wilah he said. Condong leleh is the skewness of Keris. Whereas Lungguh Wilah is a horizontal line located at the bottom of Keris.”

In regards to Condong Leleh, via browsing this forum I’ve found a thread where it was discussed and explained by Alan that a good quality Keris should have a Condong Leleh that is neither too straight nor too lean.

How about Lungguh Wilah? First of all what is it Lungguh Wilah? Is it the bottom part of the blade that touch the ganja? Secondly what indication can we obtain from Lungguh Wilah to determine whether a keris is a good quality or not?

Cheers,

Yohan

A. G. Maisey · 14th December 2019, 12:40 AM

What he's talking about is the base of the actual wiah, not including the gonjo.

"Mendatar" = a straight horizontal line, so that straight horizontal line forms one side of an angle, the line up the middle of the blade forms the other side of the angle, and that angle then decides the slant forward of the keris, the "condong leleh".

The way in which I was taught to set this angle when making a blade is by using the tiles on the floor, you mark where you want the exact point to be, you file the base of the wilah flat and place that on a horizontal joint, then you bring the point back to be X mili from the horizontal that runs through the middle of the pesi, you adjust the angles of point setting and the base until you get the exact point position and the exact horizontal base line in agreement.

The tile size in old houses in Jawa Tengah are pretty much standard, if your blade forging goes past the vertical needed to set the point position you use a straight edge and draw from the horizontal line with central point of pesi marked, through to the measured point from central vertical to exact point position marked.With the centre of the pesi, all you need do is to put a vertical tile joint running up through the centre of the pesi, and the vertical tile joint running across the base, where they intersect is then the centre of the pesi where it joins the blade.

The end result is that you get the blade angle just right to achieve a harmonious angle.

But really, there is a lot more to creating a keris that is nice to look at, and that generates a pleasant feeling than just the blade angle. You need to get the "chest" of the blade and the "back" of the blade at the right distance from the point, and from each other, and that involves the angle formed by a line drawn between the central point of each, and the line through the middle of the blade.

You need to get the width of the central point of the blade in harmonious proportion to the base of the blade. Then there is the decline to the point, the sweep of the wadidang, the angle of the gandhik.

There are many proportions and relative angles that must be considered when trying to create a keris that is fit to be considered as an art work.

Kamdi knew this, you've only got look at some of his later work to know how well he knew it, so either he did not open up to the journalist, or else the journalist did not completely report what Kamdi told him.

Turning a keris into art is not a real easy job, it does not depend on just a couple of lines & angles.

I suppose that I should mention the curve of the top of the gonjo too. This curve needs to match fairly closely the standard curve in the top of the wrongko that is used in the area where the keris is being made. There is only a very limited adjustment possible with a ready made wrongko or wrongko bakalan, and most wrongkos are not 100% custom made. If the gonjo curve varies too much from the current standard, that often means you have no choice but to get a custom wrongko made, which will cost more.

JustYS · 16th December 2019, 03:13 AM

Thank you for your comprehensive explanation Alan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Kamdi knew this, you've only got look at some of his later work to know how well he knew it, so either he did not open up to the journalist, or else the journalist did not completely report what Kamdi told him.

As you probably know Tempo magazine is like TIME magazine, it is not a specific Keris or Tosan Aji magazine so most likely your latter suggestion is correct there must be something lost in translation.

Best Regards,

Yohan

A. G. Maisey · 16th December 2019, 10:22 PM

Yes, I think so.

I've had a few experiences with journos, all in the long past, and for more than 30 years now I have simply refused to speak with or be interviewed by journos and writers:- in my experience they select what they wish to write, and in doing so can make one appear to be a half-educated monkey.

13th December 2019, 07:12 AM	#1
JustYS Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 138	Lungguh Wilah? Dear All, I’ve stumbled to an old article about Keris makers from an Indonesian magazine (Tempo, 2011). In one of the paragraph (see attachment), about a keris maker named Sukamdi the article mentioned: “Finally he figured it out the telltale of good quality Keris. It lies on the Condong Leleh and Lungguh Wilah he said. Condong leleh is the skewness of Keris. Whereas Lungguh Wilah is a horizontal line located at the bottom of Keris.” In regards to Condong Leleh, via browsing this forum I’ve found a thread where it was discussed and explained by Alan that a good quality Keris should have a Condong Leleh that is neither too straight nor too lean. How about Lungguh Wilah? First of all what is it Lungguh Wilah? Is it the bottom part of the blade that touch the ganja? Secondly what indication can we obtain from Lungguh Wilah to determine whether a keris is a good quality or not? Cheers, Yohan Attached Images

14th December 2019, 12:40 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	What he's talking about is the base of the actual wiah, not including the gonjo. "Mendatar" = a straight horizontal line, so that straight horizontal line forms one side of an angle, the line up the middle of the blade forms the other side of the angle, and that angle then decides the slant forward of the keris, the "condong leleh". The way in which I was taught to set this angle when making a blade is by using the tiles on the floor, you mark where you want the exact point to be, you file the base of the wilah flat and place that on a horizontal joint, then you bring the point back to be X mili from the horizontal that runs through the middle of the pesi, you adjust the angles of point setting and the base until you get the exact point position and the exact horizontal base line in agreement. The tile size in old houses in Jawa Tengah are pretty much standard, if your blade forging goes past the vertical needed to set the point position you use a straight edge and draw from the horizontal line with central point of pesi marked, through to the measured point from central vertical to exact point position marked.With the centre of the pesi, all you need do is to put a vertical tile joint running up through the centre of the pesi, and the vertical tile joint running across the base, where they intersect is then the centre of the pesi where it joins the blade. The end result is that you get the blade angle just right to achieve a harmonious angle. But really, there is a lot more to creating a keris that is nice to look at, and that generates a pleasant feeling than just the blade angle. You need to get the "chest" of the blade and the "back" of the blade at the right distance from the point, and from each other, and that involves the angle formed by a line drawn between the central point of each, and the line through the middle of the blade. You need to get the width of the central point of the blade in harmonious proportion to the base of the blade. Then there is the decline to the point, the sweep of the wadidang, the angle of the gandhik. There are many proportions and relative angles that must be considered when trying to create a keris that is fit to be considered as an art work. Kamdi knew this, you've only got look at some of his later work to know how well he knew it, so either he did not open up to the journalist, or else the journalist did not completely report what Kamdi told him. Turning a keris into art is not a real easy job, it does not depend on just a couple of lines & angles. I suppose that I should mention the curve of the top of the gonjo too. This curve needs to match fairly closely the standard curve in the top of the wrongko that is used in the area where the keris is being made. There is only a very limited adjustment possible with a ready made wrongko or wrongko bakalan, and most wrongkos are not 100% custom made. If the gonjo curve varies too much from the current standard, that often means you have no choice but to get a custom wrongko made, which will cost more. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 14th December 2019 at 12:50 AM.

16th December 2019, 10:22 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Yes, I think so. I've had a few experiences with journos, all in the long past, and for more than 30 years now I have simply refused to speak with or be interviewed by journos and writers:- in my experience they select what they wish to write, and in doing so can make one appear to be a half-educated monkey.