Kayan mandau

[Maurice]

Just for sharing....... and with a little question.

Anyone see this kind of silver amulet, which is attached to the belt?



Maurice

[scratch]

Is the carving of scandinavian mythos? It is wonderful.
The amulet looks like Thors hammer
Thank you for sharing

Dan

[ronpakis]

hello aso,

the double spiral is pretty common in asia but also outside. when it is seen on a indonesian item and especially in silver my first guess is timor region. There are numerous different styles in that region but very very often with this type of spiral. Unfortunatly i dont have any references for this piece from books. good luck!

greetingd Ron

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by ronpakis

hello aso,

the double spiral is pretty common in asia but also outside. when it is seen on a indonesian item and especially in silver my first guess is timor region. There are numerous different styles in that region but very very often with this type of spiral. Unfortunatly i dont have any references for this piece from books. good luck!

greetingd Ron

Hi Ron,

Thanks for your reply. I have looked in the book of Hein, but can,t find this exact motif.......

I hope by 'aso' you don,t mean the dutch description of it???

Kind regards,
Maurice

[asomotif]

the dutch description of it

Dutch description of aso ?
Never though there would be one

Ps. Maurice, I also would not know what the amulet is.
Could it be part of a nechlace or some kind of jewelery ?

Nice hilt by the way. Would like some more poctures of the hilt.

Best regards,
Willem

[scratch]

Hello Maurice,
For some reason this protective amulet came to mind.
No disrespect intended

Kind regards,

Dan

[Jim McDougall]

Extremely interesting topic! I'd like to know more about these amulets, and hear from those of you who are field specific in these weapon forms from these ethnographic regions. From what I gather here, they were separate from the weapons, but worn along with them.
Dan's posts brought in the clear suggestion of the similarity to Celtic artistic style, and it does seem that such amuletic devices were often applied to thier sword hilts.
Obviously not suggesting Celtic presence in these regions, but noting the similarity only in accord with those suggestions. We have seen in so many cases how artistic themes and symbology have diffused over vast distances and across many cultures through time. It would be interesting to know what those with expertise in these weapons think.

[David]

Interesting similiarities Dan, but i'm fairly sure that we will find no actual connection between this amulet and Thor's hammer.
I also think that it is possible that an amulet like this might not originate in the same culture that the mandau is from. Isn't it possible that pieces like this might be acquired through trade or taken off a dead enemy? It looks somewhat like T'boli design and craft to me, but i do admit that my knowledge of that culture is limited.

[Jim McDougall]

It seems possible that trade was likely the most common vehicle for the diffusion of material culture along with many aspects of other cultures including of course religion, philosophy, literature etc. It seems to have been common for cultures to adopt interesting items and ideas that in some way corresponded to or could be applied to thier own perspective.

[Jim McDougall]

The ringlets at the bottom of the piece shown in the original post remind me in some ways of the guard features on some kampilan. While clearly a remote connection, perhaps diffusion through Spanish cultural infusion might have some bearing, and the vestiges of Celtic symbolism might have found some vehicle in that. Just suggestions for consideration.

[ronpakis]

sorry sorry!

no not the dutch aso.

i did not read the thread back and thought asomotif was the threadstarter.

greetings ron

[asomotif]

thought asomotif was the threadstarter

You can call me 'Willem'. That's what most people do

Dan's posts brought in the clear suggestion of the similarity to Celtic artistic style

The similarity between celtic design and borneo design is something that started my interest in this culture.
In my twenties I was interested in our celtic past (I am dutch) and read some books about it. I also was interested in tattoo designs and celtic styles withing tattoo designs.
Also Borneo came in perspective due to their tattoo history.
Than in 1997 my sister planned a holiday to Sarawak and I went along.
Those 4 weeks really got me interested.
Old men adorned with various tattoo's. The old habit of headhunting and trophees. The similarity with what I knew from Celtic times where striking.

But of course designs made by humans have 1 factor in common. the're made by humans.

rattan weavings from Indonesia can be very similar to those from the Amazon.

scroll motifs, spirals are found almost everywhere.

But back to the amulet.
I find it difficult to judge an amulet when you are not sure of the age and origin of the mandau. This mandau is clearly old. But there is no way for me to guess when and where the amulet was attached to it.
This specific amulet also reminds me of jewellry from India.
Timor as Ron mentioned could be possible.

Hard to be exact on the amulet, but surely a very nice traditional mandau.

[Maurice]

Thanks all for the reply!

I must admit that the amulet is connected with the belt on a cord. So i am not sure if it is original or attached later.

I got two emails of friendcollectors who told me it could be from Batak Sumatra.
On ebay I have seen some ear pendants which have the same shape as the spirals in the amulet. But I can,t post pictures of them at the moment, because the auction has not been closed yet.

These kind of shapes I think you see all over the indonesian archipellago.
We have also seen these shapes in the handle in the thread of that beautiful Borneo sword from David:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4914
I also have seen these figures used in the Batak region.

Originally Posted by ronpakis

sorry sorry!

no not the dutch aso.

No problem Ron, I thought so already you mixed me up with Willem.

Originally Posted by scratch

Hello Maurice,
For some reason this protective amulet came to mind.
No disrespect intended

Impressive pic Dan! I see what you mean....

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The ringlets at the bottom of the piece shown in the original post remind me in some ways of the guard features on some kampilan. .

Is there some one who can give me a picture of the kampilan Jim is referring to? It would like to see one.

Originally Posted by asomotif

Ps. Maurice, I also would not know what the amulet is.
Could it be part of a nechlace or some kind of jewelery ?
Nice hilt by the way. Would like some more poctures of the hilt.
Best regards,
Willem

I have no idea if it could be some kind of jewelery....
From what angle you want to see some more pics of the hilt??

[Mytribalworld]

Originally Posted by asomotif

You can call me 'Willem'. That's what most people do



The similarity between celtic design and borneo design is something that started my interest in this culture.
In my twenties I was interested in our celtic past (I am dutch) and read some books about it. I also was interested in tattoo designs and celtic styles withing tattoo designs.
Also Borneo came in perspective due to their tattoo history.
Than in 1997 my sister planned a holiday to Sarawak and I went along.
Those 4 weeks really got me interested.
Old men adorned with various tattoo's. The old habit of headhunting and trophees. The similarity with what I knew from Celtic times where striking.

But of course designs made by humans have 1 factor in common. the're made by humans.

rattan weavings from Indonesia can be very similar to those from the Amazon.

scroll motifs, spirals are found almost everywhere.

But back to the amulet.
I find it difficult to judge an amulet when you are not sure of the age and origin of the mandau. This mandau is clearly old. But there is no way for me to guess when and where the amulet was attached to it.
This specific amulet also reminds me of jewellry from India.
Timor as Ron mentioned could be possible.

Hard to be exact on the amulet, but surely a very nice traditional mandau.

Hi,

I found this pic in Hornbill and Dragon a 300 years old coffin from the Kinabatangan area. look at the scroll motifs.....

On the Celtic influence... I was also interested in the similar connection of Celtic patterns ito Dayak and southeast asian art.
The Scyths had most likely an important role into the exchange of motifs.
They where widespread active from Europe to the borders of China.
A good example is the "twisted back style" where the back of the animal is turned 180 degrees.A art style that's also quite often used on the Aso motifs.

[VVV]

The double spiral is a universal bronze age, f.i. Dong-Son, motif.
In this case my guesses are either Timor/Moluccan (if originally matched in Borneo), or maybe Batak (maybe added later in Holland)?
It's quite common to add foreign artefacts for protection as imported "magic" seems quite often to be considered stronger than domestic.
Mjolnir and Viking motifs seems a bit far-fetched to me...

Michael

[Maurice]

According to Ben it was used as a buckle to close the belt.
It seemed like I used the wrong word (Amulet).

Maurice

[David]

Originally Posted by Maurice

According to Ben it was used as a buckle to close the belt.
It seemed like I used the wrong word (Amulet).

Maurice

Well, just because it served a practical purpose does not necessarily mean that there was not magickal attribution applied. I might still be considered an amulet.

[ronpakis]

not quit the type of buckle you would expect?? How does it work than?

greetings ron

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by ronpakis

not quit the type of buckle you would expect?? How does it work than?

greetings ron

Hi Ron,

I have seen buckles in different forms. Crocodile teeth, wooden peg, shell knot, bone. But I haven,t seen a buckle like this either myself.
But as mentioned it could be hanged on it later. But dajaks also use stuff from trade.

How it works:
There is a ratan belt which is going around the waste. And it has a loop were the buckle is stuck through..
I have some better pics were you can see the whole ratan belt and some old pics of dajaks with mandaus on their waste attached, to give you a better imagination how it is fastened.

Groeten,
Maurice

[Maurice]

It took some time, but I found a likewise "amulet", now on a Bornean dart quiver!!! (by the way this one isn't mine).