Swiss cantonal riffle ?

Cerjak · 17th December 2016, 07:55 PM

This riffle has a heavy octoganal barrel
Caliber circa 18 mm
Total weight is about 7 kg.
An interesting detail: the barrel has a bayonet slot for military use.
Any comment on it would be welcome.
Best
Cerjak

fernando · 17th December 2016, 08:17 PM

Hi Jean-Luc

There you have a Swiss target rifle, as you may see by the precision additions; reinforced multigroove rifling, set (adjustable) trigger, 'schützen' type butt plate and a block for an windage adjustable front sight ...not a slot for a bayonet

Fernando K · 17th December 2016, 11:23 PM

Dear namesake

I do not see any connection between the block to the right of the barrel and the front sigth. It looks like some kind of bayonet. The drilling in the bar is for some form of fastening.

Affectionately. Fernando K

corrado26 · 18th December 2016, 10:23 AM

This is a privatly made Swiss rifle made after the design of the ordnance rifle M 1851, which was the first military rifle in whole Europe to have the small calibre of 10,5mm. The rifle shown was made by Siber Brothers at Lausanne/CH with a calibre of 18mm for private use. It has a block for adjusting a bajonett right of the muzzle, which was boltet by aids of a spring, whose clutch engaged in the hole of the block.
corrado26

fernando · 18th December 2016, 02:07 PM

I fully understand your surprise at my assumption that the barrel side block is not for lodging a bayonet but, i didn't think i would have to doubt the description of this rifle by a well credited house, which reads as follows:

A .700 CALIBRE SWISS PERCUSSION TARGET RIFLE BY FRERES SIBER A LAUSANNE, NO. 133, CIRCA 1845 with heavy octagonal twist multi-groove rifled barrel fitted with adjustable back-sight and with a block on the right of the muzzle for a windage-adjustable fore-sight, engraved breech with an eagle above a numbered oval, case-hardened tang, signed case-hardened flush-fitting lock, set trigger, highly figured walnut full stock, iron mounts comprising spurred butt-plate, trigger-guard, three ramrod-pipes, the rear extending to form a rest beneath the stock, and two sling swivels (patinated), two vacant German silver escutcheons, horn fore-end cap, and horn-tipped ramrod 89.0 cm; 35 in barrel The brothers Jean Frédéric and Jean François Charles Siber are recorded working together in Lausanne circa 1845.

Cerjak · 18th December 2016, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

I fully understand your surprise at my assumption that the barrel side block is not for lodging a bayonet but, i didn't think i would have to doubt the description of this rifle by a well credited house, which reads as follows:

A .700 CALIBRE SWISS PERCUSSION TARGET RIFLE BY FRERES SIBER A LAUSANNE, NO. 133, CIRCA 1845 with heavy octagonal twist multi-groove rifled barrel fitted with adjustable back-sight and with a block on the right of the muzzle for a windage-adjustable fore-sight, engraved breech with an eagle above a numbered oval, case-hardened tang, signed case-hardened flush-fitting lock, set trigger, highly figured walnut full stock, iron mounts comprising spurred butt-plate, trigger-guard, three ramrod-pipes, the rear extending to form a rest beneath the stock, and two sling swivels (patinated), two vacant German silver escutcheons, horn fore-end cap, and horn-tipped ramrod 89.0 cm; 35 in barrel The brothers Jean Frédéric and Jean François Charles Siber are recorded working together in Lausanne circa 1845.

Dear Fernando ,
Please se the below pictures for swiss riffle with bayonet slot, some times even in reliable auction houses small omissions are possible.
Fenando k and Corado thank you for your comments.

Jean-Luc

fernando · 18th December 2016, 02:59 PM

Parfait

.

iskender · 18th December 2016, 03:14 PM

dear gentlemen ,in my collection i have many rifles of this type ,ranging from the flintlockaera pre 1800 till the late ones made with percussionlocks. the privat guns made for shooting as a hobby at that time have no bajonet and can reach gigantic size . the ones with a bajonet-holder are from a "Scharfschützen-Kompanie". at that time there was no central production of rifles in switzerland, these guns are mostly made by a local gunsmith or orderd in belgium /liege. there a even many of them with "damascusbarrels" there will be a good chance to find a fitting bajonet for this rifle! greetings iskender

Cerjak · 18th December 2016, 08:05 PM

Dear Iskender,
Thank you for your comment.
After some researchs in found some interesting informations about similar examples.
It seems that it could be a mod 1842/1852 so before the mod 1851.
Also I think that this riffle has a damascus barrel .
Best
Cerjak

iskender · 18th December 2016, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerjak

Dear Iskender,
Thank you for your comment.
After some researchs in found some interesting informations about similar examples.
It seems that it could be a mod 1842/1852 so before the mod 1851.
Also I think that this riffle has a damascus barrel .
Best
Cerjak

bonsoir cerjak , the missing bajonet together with a original leadersccabard has a standard price around 150 sfr in switzerland.there are many for sale now because the people who collected " Kantonale Ordonnanz " till 1848 are dead and the prices are very moderate on swiss items now ! ( i am the next generation also dead soon

) bonne soirée encore iskender

Cerjak · 19th December 2016, 04:54 PM

Hi iskender,
I found this model and I think that it could be the good model for my riffle.
SUISSE
Baïonnette à queue pour carabine modèle 1838 du Canton de Vaud.
Lame triangulaire poinçonnée au talon.
Longueur lame : 50,3 cm - Longueur totale : 57,8 cm

Best
Cerjak

iskender · 19th December 2016, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerjak

Hi iskender,
I found this model and I think that it could be the good model for my riffle.
SUISSE
Baïonnette à queue pour carabine modèle 1838 du Canton de Vaud.
Lame triangulaire poinçonnée au talon.
Longueur lame : 50,3 cm - Longueur totale : 57,8 cm

Best
Cerjak

hello cerjak , this looks good ! congrats ! a military rifle with the bajonet missing is always somehow frustrating. iskender

17th December 2016, 07:55 PM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Swiss cantonal riffle ? This riffle has a heavy octoganal barrel Caliber circa 18 mm Total weight is about 7 kg. An interesting detail: the barrel has a bayonet slot for military use. Any comment on it would be welcome. Best Cerjak Attached Images

18th December 2016, 02:07 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	What am i missing ... I fully understand your surprise at my assumption that the barrel side block is not for lodging a bayonet but, i didn't think i would have to doubt the description of this rifle by a well credited house, which reads as follows: A .700 CALIBRE SWISS PERCUSSION TARGET RIFLE BY FRERES SIBER A LAUSANNE, NO. 133, CIRCA 1845 with heavy octagonal twist multi-groove rifled barrel fitted with adjustable back-sight and with a block on the right of the muzzle for a windage-adjustable fore-sight, engraved breech with an eagle above a numbered oval, case-hardened tang, signed case-hardened flush-fitting lock, set trigger, highly figured walnut full stock, iron mounts comprising spurred butt-plate, trigger-guard, three ramrod-pipes, the rear extending to form a rest beneath the stock, and two sling swivels (patinated), two vacant German silver escutcheons, horn fore-end cap, and horn-tipped ramrod 89.0 cm; 35 in barrel The brothers Jean Frédéric and Jean François Charles Siber are recorded working together in Lausanne circa 1845.

18th December 2016, 03:14 PM	#8
iskender Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 60	sniperrifle ? " cantonale ordonnanz " dear gentlemen ,in my collection i have many rifles of this type ,ranging from the flintlockaera pre 1800 till the late ones made with percussionlocks. the privat guns made for shooting as a hobby at that time have no bajonet and can reach gigantic size . the ones with a bajonet-holder are from a "Scharfschützen-Kompanie". at that time there was no central production of rifles in switzerland, these guns are mostly made by a local gunsmith or orderd in belgium /liege. there a even many of them with "damascusbarrels" there will be a good chance to find a fitting bajonet for this rifle! greetings iskender Last edited by iskender; 18th December 2016 at 03:36 PM.

18th December 2016, 08:05 PM	#9
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Carabine vaudoise mod 1842-50 Dear Iskender, Thank you for your comment. After some researchs in found some interesting informations about similar examples. It seems that it could be a mod 1842/1852 so before the mod 1851. Also I think that this riffle has a damascus barrel . Best Cerjak Attached Images

19th December 2016, 04:54 PM	#11
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	Hi iskender, I found this model and I think that it could be the good model for my riffle. SUISSE Baïonnette à queue pour carabine modèle 1838 du Canton de Vaud. Lame triangulaire poinçonnée au talon. Longueur lame : 50,3 cm - Longueur totale : 57,8 cm Best Cerjak Attached Images

17th December 2016, 08:17 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Jean-Luc There you have a Swiss target rifle, as you may see by the precision additions; reinforced multigroove rifling, set (adjustable) trigger, 'schützen' type butt plate and a block for an windage adjustable front sight ...not a slot for a bayonet

17th December 2016, 11:23 PM	#3
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 669	Dear namesake I do not see any connection between the block to the right of the barrel and the front sigth. It looks like some kind of bayonet. The drilling in the bar is for some form of fastening. Affectionately. Fernando K

18th December 2016, 10:23 AM	#4
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	This is a privatly made Swiss rifle made after the design of the ordnance rifle M 1851, which was the first military rifle in whole Europe to have the small calibre of 10,5mm. The rifle shown was made by Siber Brothers at Lausanne/CH with a calibre of 18mm for private use. It has a block for adjusting a bajonett right of the muzzle, which was boltet by aids of a spring, whose clutch engaged in the hole of the block. corrado26

18th December 2016, 02:59 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Parfait .