Shamshir Inscription Translation. PLease help.

Aleksey G. · 21st November 2010, 04:23 PM

Guys, Hello, how are you? Hope everyone is well.
Could really use and will really apreciate some help on the translation of the inscription and the marks of this shamshir.

Very intriguing, I've seen "the lion" many times, in different poses, sizes, and the way mark is rendered, but never seen it with a possbile inlaid inscription inside. Thank you in advance guys. Alex

Atlantia · 21st November 2010, 04:30 PM

OMG!!!!!

It says: 'If found please return to Gene'

Wow Alex, who did you have to kill to get that one?

Aleksey G. · 21st November 2010, 05:18 PM

he..he..thats pretty funny Gene!
no killin'...just lots of sexual favors

(kidding)

Atlantia · 21st November 2010, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleksey G.

he..he..thats pretty funny Gene!
no killin'...just lots of sexual favors

(kidding)

LOL! Well worth it I'd say!

Seriously though, its an astonishing weapon, a total WOW!

RSWORD · 22nd November 2010, 03:42 AM

Aleksey,

That is a beautiful sword with absolutely georgeous wootz! Thanks for sharing. I recall another example that had the lion cartouche with inscription on the lion. As I recall, that inscription was "Assad Allah" and this marking looks similar but I wouldn't bank on it just yet.

Aleksey G. · 22nd November 2010, 08:17 PM

Dudes (Rick, Gene). Thank you.
Here are some measurements: blade is 35.5"/ overall: 40.5" / at the spine, mostly thruout the whole blade its almost 9-8mm
Blade is very heavy.

Dom · 23rd November 2010, 02:12 AM

Hi Alex

your sword is "Persian" it's a "Shamsheer"
the hilt is in "Baddawi" style
the shape of the blade, classifed your sword as "Qara Toban" (a variety of Persian Johar)
seems be 18th Century

the pic identify the blacksmith, the famous "Assad Allah", and a mention about "Abbas Shah"

the long mention on the blade, is a poem written in old Arabic,
unfortunatly my translator don't have the necessary knowledge to offer a translation of it

all the best

Gavin Nugent · 23rd November 2010, 02:22 AM

Congrats, you put up a good fight to get this old girl, I was very smitten when I saw her. I look forward to seeing poem translated one day, I have seen the same poem on a number of blades so it must be historically important to have such phrases on the blade. Such beautiful large heavy complete examples and with silver are seldom seen, again congrats and thanks for sharing.

Gav

Aleksey G. · 23rd November 2010, 01:18 PM

Dom, thank you very much for your help in the translation, I will look and see if I can find someone who can translate it, if I can - i will surely post it.
Gav, thanks man.

Atlantia · 24th November 2010, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleksey G.

Dudes (Rick, Gene). Thank you.
Here are some measurements: blade is 35.5"/ overall: 40.5" / at the spine, mostly thruout the whole blade its almost 9-8mm
Blade is very heavy.

Hi Alex,

Am I reading that right, 8mm-9mm thick blade?
Whats the weight of the sword?

Best
Gene

A.alnakkas · 26th November 2010, 03:55 AM

hello all,

this is my first contribution here so i hope its a helpful one. the 2nd picture showing the poem is upside down so i had to copy the image in order to reverse it (blade up). i can confirm that the poem is arabic, but so far i cannot connect it to any poet.

here is the translation (it may not make sense, so please forgive me) starting from right to left:

1- ujebti عجبت: it is written as if spoken to a female and it means: (you are surprised or liking)

2- Min من: it means (from).

3- alsawarema الصوارم: it means (swords).

4- wa alqana والقنا: which means (and spears).

5- yuhdana يحضنا: it means (embraced).

6- fe في: means (in)

7- aydi ايدي: means (hands).

8- alqawm القوم: means (the people. but it could also mean anything from army to a gathering of people).

9- wa huna وهنا: means (and here).

10- thukur ذكور: means (males or men. but may even mean, memory).

11- wa ajab و عجب: means ( and was surprised )

12- minha منها: means (from it)

13- be anaha بأنها: means ( as or as if)

14- be altafahum بالتفهم: means (with understanding or collectiveness)

15- tu ajeju تأججو: means (to increase or to fuel)

16- naran نارا: means (fire)

17- wa le akuf ولأكف: means (and to cease)

18- buhur بحور: means (seas)

19- wa ujabu واعجب: means (to be surprised or i am surprised)

20- min من: means (from)

21- this word i cannot understand so will confirm it soon.

22- ya suda يصد: means (to block)

23- alashad الاشد: means (the hardest)

24- wa hum rukud وهم ركود: means (while they are lazy or docile)

from what i can tell, the poem is made of 3 verses.

this is the best i can do so far, so sorry if its not helpful. will try to show the blade to a more experienced person (experienced with poetry that is) and hopefully i can get the poet and the meaning of the poem.

A.alnakkas

Aleksey G. · 26th November 2010, 10:38 AM

Gene, just measured again with a good metric ruler, its actually 7mm at the spine. Width of the blade at the guard is 1.25"

Atlantia · 26th November 2010, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleksey G.

Gene, just measured again with a good metric ruler, its actually 7mm at the spine. Width of the blade at the guard is 1.25"

What is the balance like? Its such a fine weapon I wonder how the weight of the blade offsets against the presumably quite light hilt?
What is the overal weight?
Have you had a gentle swing? How does it feel?
Sorry to bombard you with questions

Just admiring it again, and I see there is no close-up of the hilt?

Aleksey G. · 27th November 2010, 03:08 AM

A.alnakkas,
Hello, thank you very, very much for your help in translation. I really apreciate it. Please forward my thanks and apreciation for his/her time to your friend who might be able to research the poem.

Gene, Hello, I will itemize your questions, no problem on bombarding with many.
1. Balance is surprisingly good, you can feel the heft of the blade while holding but not to the point thats is uncomfortably blade heavy. Grip area is thick and allows you to create a good firm grip so it helps with the heft of the blade. Balance point ia 10" from the guard. (I put the blade on its spine and found the point where it freely balances sitting on my extended finger.)
2. Unfort. dont know the overall weight, I dont have the scles with a hook where I can suspend something, I might pick some up this weekend and weight it for you..
3. Swings feel good, if you work your hand and your body properly with a swing, heaviness of the blade makes it feel even better, it almost like your body follows the blade.

Aleksey G. · 27th November 2010, 03:51 AM

Gene, close up of the hilt for you bro.

A.alnakkas · 27th November 2010, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleksey G.

A.alnakkas,
Hello, thank you very, very much for your help in translation. I really apreciate it. Please forward my thanks and apreciation for his/her time to your friend who might be able to research the poem.

you are most welcome.

i havent yet shown it to my friend, but my father says that it could be a mish mash of multiple verses from different poems and am begining to support that. at first, i thought its a persian poem translated by a persian to arabic (due to the existence of vowels and parts that simply doesnt make sense) if its translation, its weak translation.

i must say though, it is an amazing blade. congratulations.

ALEX · 6th December 2010, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

Aleksey,

That is a beautiful sword with absolutely georgeous wootz! Thanks for sharing. I recall another example that had the lion cartouche with inscription on the lion. As I recall, that inscription was "Assad Allah" and this marking looks similar but I wouldn't bank on it just yet.

Another example of 'writing on the lion', which reads: "Amel Assad"/"Made by Assad". I think you may have mentioned this one, Rsword:-). I do not think it means anything significant, as Assad means Lion, this could be decoration related.

Alex, this is absolutely wonderful sword and looks fantastic. I saw it before, in uncleaned condition, and now it is simply flawless. Congratulations on owning it!!!

21st November 2010, 04:23 PM	#1
Aleksey G. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 70	Shamshir Inscription Translation. PLease help. Guys, Hello, how are you? Hope everyone is well. Could really use and will really apreciate some help on the translation of the inscription and the marks of this shamshir. Very intriguing, I've seen "the lion" many times, in different poses, sizes, and the way mark is rendered, but never seen it with a possbile inlaid inscription inside. Thank you in advance guys. Alex Attached Images

22nd November 2010, 08:17 PM	#6
Aleksey G. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 70	Dudes (Rick, Gene). Thank you. Here are some measurements: blade is 35.5"/ overall: 40.5" / at the spine, mostly thruout the whole blade its almost 9-8mm Blade is very heavy. Last edited by Aleksey G.; 22nd November 2010 at 11:27 PM.

23rd November 2010, 02:12 AM	#7
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	Hi Alex your sword is "Persian" it's a "Shamsheer" the hilt is in "Baddawi" style the shape of the blade, classifed your sword as "Qara Toban" (a variety of Persian Johar) seems be 18th Century the pic identify the blacksmith, the famous "Assad Allah", and a mention about "Abbas Shah" the long mention on the blade, is a poem written in old Arabic, unfortunatly my translator don't have the necessary knowledge to offer a translation of it all the best Attached Images

23rd November 2010, 02:22 AM	#8
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Congrats Congrats, you put up a good fight to get this old girl, I was very smitten when I saw her. I look forward to seeing poem translated one day, I have seen the same poem on a number of blades so it must be historically important to have such phrases on the blade. Such beautiful large heavy complete examples and with silver are seldom seen, again congrats and thanks for sharing. Gav

27th November 2010, 03:51 AM	#15
Aleksey G. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 70	Gene, close up of the hilt for you bro. Attached Images

21st November 2010, 04:30 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	OMG!!!!! It says: 'If found please return to Gene' Wow Alex, who did you have to kill to get that one?

21st November 2010, 05:18 PM	#3
Aleksey G. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 70	he..he..thats pretty funny Gene! no killin'...just lots of sexual favors (kidding)

22nd November 2010, 03:42 AM	#5
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	Aleksey, That is a beautiful sword with absolutely georgeous wootz! Thanks for sharing. I recall another example that had the lion cartouche with inscription on the lion. As I recall, that inscription was "Assad Allah" and this marking looks similar but I wouldn't bank on it just yet.

23rd November 2010, 01:18 PM	#9
Aleksey G. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 70	Dom, thank you very much for your help in the translation, I will look and see if I can find someone who can translate it, if I can - i will surely post it. Gav, thanks man.

26th November 2010, 03:55 AM	#11
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	hello all, this is my first contribution here so i hope its a helpful one. the 2nd picture showing the poem is upside down so i had to copy the image in order to reverse it (blade up). i can confirm that the poem is arabic, but so far i cannot connect it to any poet. here is the translation (it may not make sense, so please forgive me) starting from right to left: 1- ujebti عجبت: it is written as if spoken to a female and it means: (you are surprised or liking) 2- Min من: it means (from). 3- alsawarema الصوارم: it means (swords). 4- wa alqana والقنا: which means (and spears). 5- yuhdana يحضنا: it means (embraced). 6- fe في: means (in) 7- aydi ايدي: means (hands). 8- alqawm القوم: means (the people. but it could also mean anything from army to a gathering of people). 9- wa huna وهنا: means (and here). 10- thukur ذكور: means (males or men. but may even mean, memory). 11- wa ajab و عجب: means ( and was surprised ) 12- minha منها: means (from it) 13- be anaha بأنها: means ( as or as if) 14- be altafahum بالتفهم: means (with understanding or collectiveness) 15- tu ajeju تأججو: means (to increase or to fuel) 16- naran نارا: means (fire) 17- wa le akuf ولأكف: means (and to cease) 18- buhur بحور: means (seas) 19- wa ujabu واعجب: means (to be surprised or i am surprised) 20- min من: means (from) 21- this word i cannot understand so will confirm it soon. 22- ya suda يصد: means (to block) 23- alashad الاشد: means (the hardest) 24- wa hum rukud وهم ركود: means (while they are lazy or docile) from what i can tell, the poem is made of 3 verses. this is the best i can do so far, so sorry if its not helpful. will try to show the blade to a more experienced person (experienced with poetry that is) and hopefully i can get the poet and the meaning of the poem. A.alnakkas

26th November 2010, 10:38 AM	#12
Aleksey G. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 70	Gene, just measured again with a good metric ruler, its actually 7mm at the spine. Width of the blade at the guard is 1.25"

27th November 2010, 03:08 AM	#14
Aleksey G. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 70	A.alnakkas, Hello, thank you very, very much for your help in translation. I really apreciate it. Please forward my thanks and apreciation for his/her time to your friend who might be able to research the poem. Gene, Hello, I will itemize your questions, no problem on bombarding with many. 1. Balance is surprisingly good, you can feel the heft of the blade while holding but not to the point thats is uncomfortably blade heavy. Grip area is thick and allows you to create a good firm grip so it helps with the heft of the blade. Balance point ia 10" from the guard. (I put the blade on its spine and found the point where it freely balances sitting on my extended finger.) 2. Unfort. dont know the overall weight, I dont have the scles with a hook where I can suspend something, I might pick some up this weekend and weight it for you.. 3. Swings feel good, if you work your hand and your body properly with a swing, heaviness of the blade makes it feel even better, it almost like your body follows the blade.