Spanish Blunderbuss Questions

[dana_w]

A friend of mine recently purchased this blunderbuss at auction. It was identified as being made for the Ottoman-Turkish market, but I have my doubts. It is 30 ½ inches long overall. The barrel is decorated with silver wire inlays with a inlaid double-headed crowned bird near the muzzle. The lock is marked JOAN.BOP.Y.SALA. The silver barrel band may be a later addition.

I’d guess the blunderbuss could date from as early as the mid 18th Century, but it might be much newer.

Several Joan Salsa are listed in Diccionario Biografico de Artistas de Cataluna, desde la epoca romana hasta nuestros dias (Biographical Dictionary of Artists of Catalonia, from Roman times to the present day) by J. F. Rafols, (1951), see attached images. I don’t speak Spanish and have yet to pass these listing by Google Translate.

Can anyone help me identify the makers of this weapon? Comments are welcome.

All images are copyright (c) 2016 Dana K. Williams. All rights are reserved.

[fernando]

Hi Dana,
The three persons listed in the diccionario are not relative to arms making; the first had a profession hard to translate from catalan 'slang' but is rather early (1533) for the subject in question, the second was a glazier and the last was a sculptor of nativity scenes.
On the other hand, you can not discard the probability that the name in the lock plate was 'invented' to give the blunderbuss a Spanish taste. Also the barrel indeed transpires an Otoman/Tuekish look. Further, the letters on the maker's seal don't seem to match with the name in the lock.
You might as well don't pay any notice to what i am saying .

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by fernando

Hi Dana,
The three persons listed in the diccionario are not relative to arms making; the first had a profession hard to translate from catalan 'slang' but is rather early (1533) for the subject in question, the second was a glazier and the last was a sculptor of nativity scenes.
On the other hand, you can not discard the probability that the name in the lock plate was 'invented' to give the blunderbuss a Spanish taste. Also the barrel indeed transpires an Otoman/Tuekish look. Further, the letters on the maker's seal don't seem to match with the name in the lock.
You might as well don't pay any notice to what i am saying .

Thanks for your explanation of the listings in the diccionario.

I didn't find anything for JOAN.BOP.Y.SALA in Dr. James Lavin's or Keith Neal's books. The barrel band adds to the Ottoman-Turkish look, but I am not sure it is original. In any case, I always value your opinion, Fernando.

[rickystl]

Hi Dana.

That is a beautiful blunderbuss. And, a most interesting one. Myself, I can't detect any evidence that this was made for the Ottoman market. While it's true that the blunderbuss remained popular in the Ottomans well into the mid-19th Century, it also remained popular in Spain as a private purchase, personal protection gun up to the mid-1800's. There are many examples of Spanish blunderbuss made with latter percussion locks, even after the gun started to fall out of favor throughout the rest of Europe. A lot of Spanish private purchase long arms seem to have a single reinforcing band somewhere along the fore stock. Even though the barrel is pin fastened to the stock. Might be just for decoration (?). And the barrel on this one looks pin fastened. Also note the single sling swival for a shoulder sling to hang vertically down the side and hidden under a cloak. The ramrod grooves and ferrels look as though the gun may have originally come with a wood ramrod, with an iron one added later. The butt stock style and trigger guard scream Spanish to me. Even the carvings on the stock look very European. Nothing like you see on the Ottoman/Turkish exports. The lock looks a little similar to the 1757 Spanish musket lock. But it has a more straight (vs banana shape) lockplate and a brass pan. Brass pans were normally associated with the last part of the 18th Century onward. But with a private purchase gun, who knows. Also, the engraving on the lock with the boar's head and flags look decidedly European. Even with the silver inlay on the barrel, the engravings don't look generic Ottoman. They look European of some sort.



It's interesting to note that the Spanish military utilized the miquelet lock up until about 1750, where they changed to the French style of flintlock. Then, changed back to the miquelet style of lock around 1790. But in the case of private purchase guns it could have gone either way at the customer's descretion. So, in dating this piece: Hmmmm. Tough call. I would guess this was a private purchase piece from around 1800. Maybe a bit before or after. It sure is a nice looking blunderbuss. Would not mind having it in my collection. LOL

Rick

[dana_w]

Thanks Rick. You make some very good points, many of which support my own doubts about the Ottoman-Turkish connection.

I am hoping that someone here will recognize the maker. That would certainly help date the weapon. I want it to be mid 18th Century, but it could easily date to the early 19th Century.

[fernando]

Rather pertinent points raised by Rick. I took some time to search for the name in the lock, which postponed my additional post in that i was going to comment on the swivel sling hook and the stock profile, the first very much the European style (Spanish and Portuguese as i recall) and the second also Iberian style ... that not the typical 'boot shaped' often seen in Catalonian 'trabucos'. However the name JOAN in the lock has a Catalonian spell; Castillian would be JUAN. I can find no name or tanslation for BOP; it just sounds strange.
I am not enough within this subject but, my doubts would remain about the general decoration. Is it a crescent moon on the barrel band ? In all this band doesn't seem to me a typical Spanish addition; but i wouldn't stand to oppose Rick's impressions. However i tend to be influenced by a determined taste that Turkish/Ottoman (and not only) have to give an European touch to (imported) guns.
Back to the name in the lock, i have found a personality (born 1592 executed 1634) called Joan Sala, later added Serrallonga (after his wife's name), a famous Catalonian bandolero (burglar, highwayman, gang leader) who became a mythical figure, so that still in the XIX century a dramatic play of his life was staged.
Giving wings to imagination, if the name in that lock is not that of a smith but an allusion to a romanticized hero, here you have one .


.

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by fernando

ck. I took some time to search for the name in the lock ... i have found a personality (born 1592 executed 1634) called Joan Sala, later added Serrallonga (after his wife's name), a famous Catalonian bandolero (burglar, highwayman, gang leader) who became a mythical figure, so that still in the XIX century a dramatic play of his life was staged.
Giving wings to imagination, if the name in that lock is not that of a smith but an allusion to a romanticized hero, here you have one .
.

Thanks for the additional information Fernando. Here are a few more images to ponder.

[Fernando K]

Dana

It should be considered if it is not DEOP. In the work of LAVIN shows the stamp of Deop, and is abbreviated as Dop. Do not dustungue well the inscription

Fernando K

[Fernando K]

Dana

The D also contains the E. It was frequent in the military shells, to abbreviate space, this method

Fernando K

[fernando]

Bingo, Tocayo .
Although Joan Deop is neither one listed in Lavin's work, he is surely one of the same Ripoll family of lockmakers, as checked. One of his production was dated XVIII century.
But then, may we infer that, the other name associated (Y) in the lock, SALA, was his partner in the production of the discussed lock ... or was this his full name later in life ?
Also interesting to note that, the pistol made by his relative Llorenz Deop, as mentioned by Lavin, had an Oriental barrel.

.

[fernando]

...Or is everybody forgering this family's famous name ?

http://armsandantiques.com/superb-18...oan-deop-ef992

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by fernando

Bingo, Tocayo .
Although Joan Deop is neither one listed in Lavin's work, he is surely one of the same Ripoll family of lockmakers, as checked. One of his production was dated XVIII century.
But then, may we infer that, the other name associated (Y) in the lock, SALA, was his partner in the production of the discussed lock ... or was this his full name later in life ?
Also interesting to note that, the pistol made by his relative Llorenz Deop, as mentioned by Lavin, had an Oriental barrel.

.

The Deop lock pictured in your post actually is from our collection. I took the photo about five years ago.

http://weaponscollector.com/peresteva_c1730.php

It would be nice to able to believe the Blunder had any connection with the Deop family, but that seems fanciful.

[Fernando K]

Namesake

It can also be, although it is not frequent its use, the maternal surname, as it is used een in the judicial proceedings

Fernando K

[rickystl]

Hi Dana.

I keep looking at that barrel band trying to visualize a connection with the rest of the gun. LOL Still scratching my head. Hmmmm. The wide shape of the band, and the style of the half-moon very much resemble the Turkish equivalent. See photo of similar on one of my pistols. Possibly the owner of the gun resided in Spain, but was from Turkish heritage? Of course I'm just speculating here. To me, the gun looks entirely Spanish made. It's only the barrel band that is a real curiosity. But also adds an interesting mystery.

Something I forgot to mention earlier: The pan on the lock may not be brass. It may be iron but gold plated (fools gold) which was a fairly common feature for higher end private purchase guns. I can't tell by the photos here, but you might ask your friend if there is also a gold plated vent hole liner. Both pan and vent hole were often done at the same time. If it's not a brass pan, I would say that you could easily date this blunderbuss to about the Third Quarter of the 18th Century.

Rick

[Fernando K]

Dana

In page 251 of the work of Rmairo Larrañaga "Historical synthesis of the Basque armeria" is the following news

ANTON Mark of cannon (barrel maker) - 1850

Affectionately. Fernando K

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Dana

In page 251 of the work of Rmairo Larrañaga "Historical synthesis of the Basque armeria" is the following news

ANTON Mark of cannon (barrel maker) - 1850

Affectionately. Fernando K

VERY interesting Fernando K. Is there a picture of the mark, or any additional information?

[Fernando K]

Dana

No. It's the only information. There is no image of the mark, but it occurs to me that the mark says A N T O N, although the N is inverted.

Affectionately. Fernando K

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Dana

No. It's the only information. There is no image of the mark, but it occurs to me that the mark says A N T O N, although the N is inverted.

Affectionately. Fernando K

Thanks. I wonder if it was just an individual or a gun making family?

[Fernando K]

Dana

Honestly, I can not answer this question. You should go to the Ripoll Arms Museum.

Fernando K

[dana_w]

Originally Posted by Fernando K

You should go to the Ripoll Arms Museum.Fernando K

I'd love to do that Fernando K. I could visit in Montserrat for their Photo Contest too, but I don't think it is going to happen.

http://www.montserratvisita.com/docs..._357530483.pdf