Hudiedao?

[DaveA]

I acquired this sword/ knife pair some years ago. At the time they were simply called "Chinese Fighting Swords". Recently I saw a similar (but more ornate) pair at Swords and Antique Weapons identified as "hudiedao". The brass mounts are very similar. The grips on mine are old wood or possibly horn. The overall length of each knife is 14 ¼” and each blade is 10 ¼”. Both knives house in the scabbard measuring 14 ¾”.

Everything else I find on hudiedao (including this forum) shows a very different hilt design.

What do I have here? Thanks in advance for any and all comments.

[KuKulzA28]

Often this shape knife is advertised as a "Chinese fighting knife" or "River Pirate Knife", but I have never seen it as a double set... Very nice example you have there.

[tom hyle]

in N America they become (without alteration) the "Chinese bowie knife"

[KuKulzA28]

Originally Posted by tom hyle

in N America they become (without alteration) the "Chinese bowie knife"

Hahaha, I have seen that... I mean there's a bit of a similarity in shape but... I wouldn't call it a Bowie. But I guess people name foreign things based on what they already know.

Just a question... how common are double sets of these style of fighting knives? I seen some here and there but they're almost always single. Often you can see double daggers or double baat jam do (butterfly swords with the guards), but this is the only "pirate fighting knife" or "Chinese bowie" I've seen in a double set.

[Gavin Nugent]

Hi Dave,

I wanted to write more on these earlier but the link of mine you provided was when these were currently on sale, now sold I can write a little more.

The form is certainly rarer than the guarded type and it is nice to see yours with a sheath too. Personally I like the guardless form because you can use them as both lethal and non-lethal weapons, being that they are easily turned in the hand and the spine can be used in the manner of an iron rod....something that can not be done with guarded varieties.
Don't be alarmed about the different hilt style, of the pairs I have owned, there is a lot of difference in size and weights of these hilts. The same is said for dao, Jian, they all have different methods of construction and materials based I guess on the makers market or the customers request.

The other interesting aspect the cut of the blade. By the cut I mean the profile. With a chopping motion, the narrow base and wide weighted body adds a certain dynamics and extra force to any blow delivered.

Enjoy them.

Gav

[fearn]

I find myself wondering if these could be the mysterious "elbow knives" of baguazhang.

The test would be how well you can hold them reversed, so that back of the blade lies along your forearm with the edge out, and it's fairly easy to flip back and forth. If they aren't comfortable that way, they aren't elbow knives.

While a few bagua practitioners use them, no one has seen a verified, genuine pair. There have been questions about whether elbow knives are hudiedao, simple guardless knives, or something else.

Best,

F

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by fearn

I find myself wondering if these could be the mysterious "elbow knives" of baguazhang.

F

Interesting paralell, something I hadn't thought of but personally I think not.

If I was to suggest any pairs I've had, the fastest, most secure and most comfortable of the knives for this type of application is certainly the longer narrow types with the thinner quillon....
There was another type I had, that I've seen in single and doubles with a beaked horm hilt and thin 'S' guard but wasn't long enough to reach the elbow but moved ultra fast in the hand.
These guardless varieties do have an advantage over the others in that they are concealable up a sleeve so can be quite a surprise.

Gav