Saif for comment

Iliad · 27th December 2008, 01:27 AM

Hi all, it's me again. I have what I am told is a Saif, from North Africa, maybe Morocco? Can anyone tell me anything about it?
Brian

ariel · 27th December 2008, 01:55 AM

It is, indeed, North African but purely decorative and recent.
We all collect for different reasons, but I would return it if I could.

Gavin Nugent · 27th December 2008, 04:40 AM

Hi Brian,

A Spanish made sword, probably Toledo, decorative and tourist in nature, probably 1960's/1970's, good to see it is complete with a scabbard at least.

Gav

Chris Evans · 27th December 2008, 06:06 AM

Hi Gavin,

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

Hi Brian,

A Spanish made sword, probably Toledo, decorative and tourist in nature, probably 1960's/1970's, good to see it is complete with a scabbard at least.

Gav

I think that you could well be right - The etch and colourings look terribly faux Toledo from the 60s-70s.

Cheers
Chris

Luc LEFEBVRE · 27th December 2008, 05:28 PM

jj

Iliad · 27th December 2008, 09:28 PM

Thanks for the information, I am duly chastened. I bought it several years ago simply as "a sword", from someone who knew less than I do about swords. Also, I didn't pay much. I identified it as a Saif because it looked so much like another one I have, pics of which are attached. The first one which you say has a Toledo blade has no mark to say "Toledo", whereas the second does say "Toledo". Since Spain and North Africa are so close, maybe the blade was shipped over to Morocco(?) and decorated there?
Please examine the new pics and let me have comments.
(I am not doing so well am I, my Saif is a fake and my "birdheaded swaggerstick" is a tourist item from Indonesia!! )
Brian

Chris Evans · 28th December 2008, 12:19 AM

Hi Illiad,

"Alfange Arabe" is in Spanish and means "Arab Curved Sword". "Alfange", correctly spelled "Alfanje", is a loose term used to describe a broad and curved bladed sword, often of Oriental provenance. Whilst I can't remember seeing one just like this in the 60s&70's, everything about this piece screams Spanish wallhanger of that era.

Cheers
Chris

ariel · 28th December 2008, 12:35 AM

Iliad:
You are NOT doing well! In fact, you are doing TERRIBLE!... just like all of us did when we started to collect and as bad as most of us still do from time to time :-).
Making mistakes is the name of the game and while you will be doing less and less of them, occasionally you will buy something so awful, that you will just sit as log and moan" Why me?" I know, I do :-(
Someone wise on this Forum once defined it as a price for higher education. So, bite the bullet, hit the books, ask questions, do research, be critical and honest. Come to think of it, no different from working on a PhD:-)

Happy New Year!

Atlantia · 28th December 2008, 04:28 AM

Hi Brian,

Don't worry mate, these are the beginnings of sword collecting and hopefully are fairly cheap so can be resold for about what you paid for them when you get bored with them.
As has been said, these ARE Spanish pieces from most likely the 1970s. there are MANY available variations all made in the same 'style' with the plated 'brass' looking hilts and coloured engraved blades.
Interestingly I actually did some heat experiments on the pommel of a siimilar sword some years back snd the plating conceals some kind of zinc alloy which melts to nothing

They are quite diverse in style, and I've seen many variations of renesaissance swords plus 'fencing' swords with button tips. What you have are parts of the same family, but presumably representing Spains connections with N.Africa.

You are right, they seem to be 'representations' of Saifs, and are fine for hanging on the wall. But they aren't 'real' swords.

If you are looking for swords that might have seen combat or were made for more than decorative purposes then, as a rule you probobly want to avoid ones that are blunt or have plated blades.
In general the less elaborate and the more sharp the more likely to be 'real'.

That rule becomes less relevant as you spend more money or go back further in time.

And Ariel is right, we all buy a 'lemon' every now and again.

Iliad · 28th December 2008, 09:25 PM

Hi guys, thanks for the information and kind commiserations. I won't be buying anything for a while, as this worldwide recession has cut my income by rather a lot. We pensioners have a hard life!

Brian

Chris Evans · 29th December 2008, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iliad

Hi guys, thanks for the information and kind commiserations. I won't be buying anything for a while, as this worldwide recession has cut my income by rather a lot. We pensioners have a hard life!

Brian

If it makes you feel any better, you are not alone. I won't be buying anything for a while. Our $ has gone south big time.

Cheers
Chris

27th December 2008, 01:27 AM	#1
Iliad Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 187	Saif for comment Hi all, it's me again. I have what I am told is a Saif, from North Africa, maybe Morocco? Can anyone tell me anything about it? Brian Attached Images

27th December 2008, 04:40 AM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Spanish made Hi Brian, A Spanish made sword, probably Toledo, decorative and tourist in nature, probably 1960's/1970's, good to see it is complete with a scabbard at least. Gav

27th December 2008, 05:28 PM	#5
Luc LEFEBVRE Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: France Posts: 472	Best Wishes 2009 jj Attached Images

27th December 2008, 09:28 PM	#6
Iliad Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 187	Thanks for the information, I am duly chastened. I bought it several years ago simply as "a sword", from someone who knew less than I do about swords. Also, I didn't pay much. I identified it as a Saif because it looked so much like another one I have, pics of which are attached. The first one which you say has a Toledo blade has no mark to say "Toledo", whereas the second does say "Toledo". Since Spain and North Africa are so close, maybe the blade was shipped over to Morocco(?) and decorated there? Please examine the new pics and let me have comments. (I am not doing so well am I, my Saif is a fake and my "birdheaded swaggerstick" is a tourist item from Indonesia!! ) Brian Attached Images

27th December 2008, 01:55 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	It is, indeed, North African but purely decorative and recent. We all collect for different reasons, but I would return it if I could.

28th December 2008, 12:19 AM	#7
Chris Evans Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 682	Hi Illiad, "Alfange Arabe" is in Spanish and means "Arab Curved Sword". "Alfange", correctly spelled "Alfanje", is a loose term used to describe a broad and curved bladed sword, often of Oriental provenance. Whilst I can't remember seeing one just like this in the 60s&70's, everything about this piece screams Spanish wallhanger of that era. Cheers Chris

28th December 2008, 12:35 AM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Iliad: You are NOT doing well! In fact, you are doing TERRIBLE!... just like all of us did when we started to collect and as bad as most of us still do from time to time :-). Making mistakes is the name of the game and while you will be doing less and less of them, occasionally you will buy something so awful, that you will just sit as log and moan" Why me?" I know, I do :-( Someone wise on this Forum once defined it as a price for higher education. So, bite the bullet, hit the books, ask questions, do research, be critical and honest. Come to think of it, no different from working on a PhD:-) Happy New Year!

28th December 2008, 04:28 AM	#9
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Brian, Don't worry mate, these are the beginnings of sword collecting and hopefully are fairly cheap so can be resold for about what you paid for them when you get bored with them. As has been said, these ARE Spanish pieces from most likely the 1970s. there are MANY available variations all made in the same 'style' with the plated 'brass' looking hilts and coloured engraved blades. Interestingly I actually did some heat experiments on the pommel of a siimilar sword some years back snd the plating conceals some kind of zinc alloy which melts to nothing They are quite diverse in style, and I've seen many variations of renesaissance swords plus 'fencing' swords with button tips. What you have are parts of the same family, but presumably representing Spains connections with N.Africa. You are right, they seem to be 'representations' of Saifs, and are fine for hanging on the wall. But they aren't 'real' swords. If you are looking for swords that might have seen combat or were made for more than decorative purposes then, as a rule you probobly want to avoid ones that are blunt or have plated blades. In general the less elaborate and the more sharp the more likely to be 'real'. That rule becomes less relevant as you spend more money or go back further in time. And Ariel is right, we all buy a 'lemon' every now and again.

28th December 2008, 09:25 PM	#10
Iliad Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 187	Hi guys, thanks for the information and kind commiserations. I won't be buying anything for a while, as this worldwide recession has cut my income by rather a lot. We pensioners have a hard life! Brian