IOOF Ames Chicopee unique?

JoeCanada42 · 29th January 2021, 06:31 PM

Hello i am not Shure if this is the right section for a fraternal sword please forgive me if it is not.
I have a few questions about it and maybe someone can help me
I have seen Encampment swords before, but not like this one.
Anybody ever seen this style in a catalogue book?
anybody know if it may be a unique issue.
I believe it was owned by Mary Currie Barbour.
the mother of a PEI Senator, who himself went to Massachusetts for upgrading education. the date of this sword because it is Chicopee is approx. 1860? which was a significant time of expansion for the oddfellows and rebekahs.
Any oddfellows out there or rebekahs that can confirm my suspicions of owner, or suggest an alternative owner, and maybe i can find out if it is unique.
also is it possible because it is circa civil war era ames,, could i have a usable military issue blade, and not a ceremonial blade?
the blade does wobble a little in the handle.

Battara · 30th January 2021, 02:26 AM

Moving to European section for better answers.

Rick · 30th January 2021, 03:56 AM

It seems to be a pretty old fraternal organization. There is a very old post colonial era hall in the town of Orleans the next town to our South. They still exist here in the states. I'd suggest you contact them to find out more about your ceremonial sword.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odd_Fellows#History

Jim McDougall · 30th January 2021, 06:24 AM

This sword of the International Order of Odd Fellows appears to be among the variations of mountings, while generally the symbolic decoration is consistent.
While very similar, this fraternal group was not part of the Masonic orders, though often members held concurrent memberships.

The Ames Sword Co. was indeed located in Chicopee, Mass. from 1848-1898, and likely their catalog of 1885 will reveal more on this example. This was reproduced in "Ames Sword Co. 1829-1935" by John D. Hamilton.

These swords are of course not intended as weapons, but ceremonial regalia, and would not serve as a weapon as the blade would break at any contact.
Their appeal comes mostly from the fact that, as here, the blades are often with owners names acid etched along with symbolic motif.

As with Masonic swords, fraternal swords have gained the interest of collectors in recent times as an unusual niche among arms. They are often historically interesting if connected to prominent individuals.

From my understanding the 'encampment' was a higher branch (normally there were lodges, as with Mason's) and members were required to be Third Degree to be included in these. There were variations in hilts as far as pertaining to rank and perhaps that may be the source of the style here.

JoeCanada42 · 30th January 2021, 10:34 PM

Thank you Battara for transferring this thread

Rick thank you for your suggestion, i will attempt to contact them.
i have previously tried the atlantic ioof head lodge, through some contact info i found... i should try again..

Thanks Jim Mc*Dougall, i will do some searching for that catalogue by John D Hamilton.

Jim McDougall · 1st February 2021, 05:10 AM

Joe, finally got the detail on this,
"The Ames Sword Co." is a reprint of the 1885 Ames catalog by Stuart Mowbray at Man at Arms magazine. (2003).
In it, your sword is shown as #322 (p.110)

In "The American Fraternal Sword" (J.Marino; J.Kaplan, 2008) example #KM162 is shown (exact match) and by Hartley & Graham (that maker name was 1899 only).

#KM166 is the same as well, no makers name but date 1872. So we know the hilt with this motif was in use by that year. The scabbard has an extra carry ring lower down the scabbard.

Ames swords began making regalia swords around 1867, and in 1881 due to restructuring began marking blades AMES SWORD CO.

Therefore your sword is dated from the period prior to 1881 and as early as 1867 due to the mkgs being AMES MFG C.

The pommel is the circular Roman tent termed 'taberna'.
In Masonic regalia, closely parallel, the officers such as commanders and grand commanders used 'gold' mounts, while the ranks used silver.

It seems the symbolic devices in the hilts are not described as to singular meanings etc. in these references, but as suggested, this guy was probably an officer of the organization 1867-1881. Possibly contacting the Grand Lodge (422 Trade St. Winston Salem N.C. ) they might have records of him.
Masonic lodges have always been very helpful and their historians keen to work on these things.

JoeCanada42 · 2nd February 2021, 07:41 PM

Thanks again Jim, I will try to contact them, I will update the thread when i learn more.

Hotspur · 5th February 2021, 03:56 AM

SH&G bought entire swords from Ames, as well as mounting fancy swords. They were literally around the corner from Tiffany.

The books mentioned are fairly inexpensive and available directly from Mowbray Publishers.

The blade is roughly the same as the 1860 staff&staff corp aka staff&field and while not as formidable as the 1850 foot officer or staff&field sabres, the blade is tempered and would hold an edge. It is in no way meant to be a military issue sword.

It might be Mentioned also that Ames was selling swords to fraternal orders pretty much back to the 1830s, when Nathan started his works with the Springfield address. After the American Civil War, the fraternal groups blossomed even ,more but standard militia swords of the Mexican War period and even earlier, the Odd Fellows were buying the m1832 foot artillery swords and having them etched at the source (Ames)

I suppose the only reason it might not be the person suggested is anyone else with the name. For instance this 1890 article
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/5732...isits-home-of/
and 1888
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4684...ur-3-may-1888/

How many more?

Cheers
GC

in addendum
http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masoni...oof_jewels.htm

JoeCanada42 · 5th February 2021, 04:38 PM

Thank you Hotspur, Very Informative, I looked at the Swords you Mentioned. I do see the same blade, very cool. Great history aswell thanks.

29th January 2021, 06:31 PM	#1
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	IOOF Ames Chicopee unique? Hello i am not Shure if this is the right section for a fraternal sword please forgive me if it is not. I have a few questions about it and maybe someone can help me I have seen Encampment swords before, but not like this one. Anybody ever seen this style in a catalogue book? anybody know if it may be a unique issue. I believe it was owned by Mary Currie Barbour. the mother of a PEI Senator, who himself went to Massachusetts for upgrading education. the date of this sword because it is Chicopee is approx. 1860? which was a significant time of expansion for the oddfellows and rebekahs. Any oddfellows out there or rebekahs that can confirm my suspicions of owner, or suggest an alternative owner, and maybe i can find out if it is unique. also is it possible because it is circa civil war era ames,, could i have a usable military issue blade, and not a ceremonial blade? the blade does wobble a little in the handle. Attached Images Last edited by JoeCanada42; 30th January 2021 at 01:57 AM.

1st February 2021, 05:10 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Joe, finally got the detail on this, "The Ames Sword Co." is a reprint of the 1885 Ames catalog by Stuart Mowbray at Man at Arms magazine. (2003). In it, your sword is shown as #322 (p.110) In "The American Fraternal Sword" (J.Marino; J.Kaplan, 2008) example #KM162 is shown (exact match) and by Hartley & Graham (that maker name was 1899 only). #KM166 is the same as well, no makers name but date 1872. So we know the hilt with this motif was in use by that year. The scabbard has an extra carry ring lower down the scabbard. Ames swords began making regalia swords around 1867, and in 1881 due to restructuring began marking blades AMES SWORD CO. Therefore your sword is dated from the period prior to 1881 and as early as 1867 due to the mkgs being AMES MFG C. The pommel is the circular Roman tent termed 'taberna'. In Masonic regalia, closely parallel, the officers such as commanders and grand commanders used 'gold' mounts, while the ranks used silver. It seems the symbolic devices in the hilts are not described as to singular meanings etc. in these references, but as suggested, this guy was probably an officer of the organization 1867-1881. Possibly contacting the Grand Lodge (422 Trade St. Winston Salem N.C. ) they might have records of him. Masonic lodges have always been very helpful and their historians keen to work on these things. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 1st February 2021 at 05:22 AM.

30th January 2021, 02:26 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	Moving to European section for better answers.

30th January 2021, 03:56 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	It seems to be a pretty old fraternal organization. There is a very old post colonial era hall in the town of Orleans the next town to our South. They still exist here in the states. I'd suggest you contact them to find out more about your ceremonial sword. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odd_Fellows#History

30th January 2021, 06:24 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	This sword of the International Order of Odd Fellows appears to be among the variations of mountings, while generally the symbolic decoration is consistent. While very similar, this fraternal group was not part of the Masonic orders, though often members held concurrent memberships. The Ames Sword Co. was indeed located in Chicopee, Mass. from 1848-1898, and likely their catalog of 1885 will reveal more on this example. This was reproduced in "Ames Sword Co. 1829-1935" by John D. Hamilton. These swords are of course not intended as weapons, but ceremonial regalia, and would not serve as a weapon as the blade would break at any contact. Their appeal comes mostly from the fact that, as here, the blades are often with owners names acid etched along with symbolic motif. As with Masonic swords, fraternal swords have gained the interest of collectors in recent times as an unusual niche among arms. They are often historically interesting if connected to prominent individuals. From my understanding the 'encampment' was a higher branch (normally there were lodges, as with Mason's) and members were required to be Third Degree to be included in these. There were variations in hilts as far as pertaining to rank and perhaps that may be the source of the style here.

30th January 2021, 10:34 PM	#5
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	Thank you Battara for transferring this thread Rick thank you for your suggestion, i will attempt to contact them. i have previously tried the atlantic ioof head lodge, through some contact info i found... i should try again.. Thanks Jim Mc*Dougall, i will do some searching for that catalogue by John D Hamilton.

2nd February 2021, 07:41 PM	#7
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	Thanks again Jim, I will try to contact them, I will update the thread when i learn more.

5th February 2021, 03:56 AM	#8
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 498	SH&G bought entire swords from Ames, as well as mounting fancy swords. They were literally around the corner from Tiffany. The books mentioned are fairly inexpensive and available directly from Mowbray Publishers. The blade is roughly the same as the 1860 staff&staff corp aka staff&field and while not as formidable as the 1850 foot officer or staff&field sabres, the blade is tempered and would hold an edge. It is in no way meant to be a military issue sword. It might be Mentioned also that Ames was selling swords to fraternal orders pretty much back to the 1830s, when Nathan started his works with the Springfield address. After the American Civil War, the fraternal groups blossomed even ,more but standard militia swords of the Mexican War period and even earlier, the Odd Fellows were buying the m1832 foot artillery swords and having them etched at the source (Ames) I suppose the only reason it might not be the person suggested is anyone else with the name. For instance this 1890 article https://www.newspapers.com/clip/5732...isits-home-of/ and 1888 https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4684...ur-3-may-1888/ How many more? Cheers GC in addendum http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masoni...oof_jewels.htm

5th February 2021, 04:38 PM	#9
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	Thank you Hotspur, Very Informative, I looked at the Swords you Mentioned. I do see the same blade, very cool. Great history aswell thanks.