Late 18th Century U.S. Naval Cutlass ?

[theswordcollector]

I was wondering if anyone can identify the model of this cutlass. I believe it is an officers since it has a hanger slot for a portepee. The grip is unique as is the blade. There is a talisman or maker mark on both sides of the blade. There are very old nicks in the blade and it is still quite sharp. This piece has seen some action in it's day. I have not been able to id it or find a similair example to it. I put it next to a British piece to show the differnce.The blade is 73.5 cm. Does anyone have a similair example?

[M ELEY]

How did I miss this little beaut! You've got a great cutlass there, Sword Collector. It is not an officer's sword, but a fighting cutlass as used by deckhands during boarding raids. I can't tell from the pics if the grip is leather over wood or made of wood.

If it is leather covered turned wood, this cutlass is either a British or American private purchase sword, as used on merchantmen for defense and on privateers during the Age of Fighting Sail.

If what I'm seeing is a wood grip, it is maple and one of the so-called Baltimore pattern U.S. cutlasses as used by the Federalist period navy. One of the key identifiers is the ribbed maple wood grips with figure-of-eight pattern hilt. The hanger slots on these were just a design feature, however, it might have served the same purposes that langets did on naval pistols (a knot holder to secure the weapon to the pirate's...( ), opps, I mean sailor's wrist. In combat, if one were to accidently drop the weapon, it prevented said item from being washed overboard, kicked around by numerous boarder's feet, etc. The blades on the Baltimore patterns were single-edged curved such as yours. Just as in the century before (Rev War swords), the blades on these didn't necessarily have to be American made. Cutlass type sea swords were practical weapons for the common sailor. I suspect that the blade on yours is German made. The cresent moon and stars is a Cabalistic design used for many centuries, but especially popular among the German smiths. For example, the firm of Schnitzler and Kirshbaum made exact copies of the m1803 Figure 8 hilt Brit cutlass, complete with spurious GR markings, into the 1850's. I bring this up because they made another earleir style sword in which they had the moon/sun/star patterning.

Note- there were two types of Baltimore pattern swords, one with ribbed iron and the other with maple. The lathe turned maple were far more rare and have fetched incredible prices. If you google-search, most of what pulls up are the iron types, but you'll see the general characteristics, anyway. Many had clipped point blades, but not all did. If you pick up a copy of Gilkerson's 'Boarders Away', you will see several similar examples.

Either way, a great naval piece for any collection!

[Marcus]

I recently posted a German Hanger (with attached flintlock) that has a very similar set of marks. Close enough to think they were made by the same person?

[Marcus]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19419

[CutlassCollector]

I missed this post too, so thanks Mark for bumping it up.

I have a similar blade with similar marks. On the reverse side it is marked HARVEY in a deep rectangular cartouche. It also has the faint remains of GR in fancy script. This dates it to between 1748 and 1795 when Harvey made government swords.

I think of it as an officer's fighting sword rather than pure cutlass as the blade is very light and 'fast'.

You can see it still has the cylindrical cast iron grip but unfortunately the guard has been lost and it has a crudely made stirrup replacement. Shipboard repair or captured and re-used in America - anyone's guess.

As Mark says the wood grip on yours shouts American made and also that the blade may have come from Europe. I also agree that the slot is for the wrist lanyard - most Brit pattern cutlass had them in the same place.

Great sword and a good find - wish mine had the double disk still!


Regards,
CC

[Shakethetrees]

Just because the blade is a match for another cutlass with a different hilt, I would not be too quick to change it.

Blades were sold by importers loose in bundles and mounted here and in England with hilts of whatever form the contract called for. A lot of them were not government contract pieces but made for the privateer/merchant market and followed no set pattern.

The guard of simple stirrup form made of thin wrought iron is probably original to the blade. I've seen a number of unquestionably correct pieces over the years with this thin material, so tread lightly!

[M ELEY]

Nice sword, CC! I would agree with Shakethetrees on your sword in that the guard might be original to the hilt. We've seen the 'loose blade' phenomenon enough in the Colonies to know it was common practice. Of course, it might have been a refitted Rev War capture, etc. I would agree with you that it might be an officer's in that it's light, but definitely a naval piece.

TheSwordCollector, I would suggest getting your weapon looked at by a local naval museum (British Maritime Museum might be a good start, or send pics to the Smithsonian, who have a whole building dedicated to all things nautical). If that hilt is red maple, which I strongly suspect that it is, then you have an excessively rare sword as I described above (the 'Baltimore' pattern). These are the creme de la creme of naval pieces. The iron hilts are rare, but the wood gripped pieces fetch major prices. Good luck.

[CutlassCollector]

Good point guys, always best to keep an open mind. I was not thinking of messing with it though - it is as it is.

It could be original to the sword but being made by Harvey and with a crown mark I figured the hilt would have been better constructed. That's why I have always thought that the hilt had been repaired because it's crude and flimsy and looks messed with but it could just be bashed about.

Regards, CC.

[theswordcollector]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

How did I miss this little beaut! You've got a great cutlass there, Sword Collector. It is not an officer's sword, but a fighting cutlass as used by deckhands during boarding raids. I can't tell from the pics if the grip is leather over wood or made of wood.

If it is leather covered turned wood, this cutlass is either a British or American private purchase sword, as used on merchantmen for defense and on privateers during the Age of Fighting Sail.

If what I'm seeing is a wood grip, it is maple and one of the so-called Baltimore pattern U.S. cutlasses as used by the Federalist period navy. One of the key identifiers is the ribbed maple wood grips with figure-of-eight pattern hilt. The hanger slots on these were just a design feature, however, it might have served the same purposes that langets did on naval pistols (a knot holder to secure the weapon to the pirate's...( ), opps, I mean sailor's wrist. In combat, if one were to accidently drop the weapon, it prevented said item from being washed overboard, kicked around by numerous boarder's feet, etc. The blades on the Baltimore patterns were single-edged curved such as yours. Just as in the century before (Rev War swords), the blades on these didn't necessarily have to be American made. Cutlass type sea swords were practical weapons for the common sailor. I suspect that the blade on yours is German made. The cresent moon and stars is a Cabalistic design used for many centuries, but especially popular among the German smiths. For example, the firm of Schnitzler and Kirshbaum made exact copies of the m1803 Figure 8 hilt Brit cutlass, complete with spurious GR markings, into the 1850's. I bring this up because they made another earleir style sword in which they had the moon/sun/star patterning.

Note- there were two types of Baltimore pattern swords, one with ribbed iron and the other with maple. The lathe turned maple were far more rare and have fetched incredible prices. If you google-search, most of what pulls up are the iron types, but you'll see the general characteristics, anyway. Many had clipped point blades, but not all did. If you pick up a copy of Gilkerson's 'Boarders Away', you will see several similar examples.

Either way, a great naval piece for any collection!

Thank you for your very informative reply and kind comments. I have always enjoyed 18th century early 19th century American and European naval weapons they have always been at the top of my collecting list even as a young boy I dreamed to some day own a real naval cutlass :-) This cutlass handle is primitive lathe turned maple. I have viewed the handle under high magnification. It is leather wrapped but much of the leather is worn. I understand now the slot was not for a officers knot but rather a lanyard it makes perfect sense:-) I will pick up a copy of 'Boarders Away' great information, thank you again :-) Thank you

[theswordcollector]

Originally Posted by CutlassCollector

I missed this post too, so thanks Mark for bumping it up.

I have a similar blade with similar marks. On the reverse side it is marked HARVEY in a deep rectangular cartouche. It also has the faint remains of GR in fancy script. This dates it to between 1748 and 1795 when Harvey made government swords.

I think of it as an officer's fighting sword rather than pure cutlass as the blade is very light and 'fast'.

You can see it still has the cylindrical cast iron grip but unfortunately the guard has been lost and it has a crudely made stirrup replacement. Shipboard repair or captured and re-used in America - anyone's guess.

As Mark says the wood grip on yours shouts American made and also that the blade may have come from Europe. I also agree that the slot is for the wrist lanyard - most Brit pattern cutlass had them in the same place.

Great sword and a good find - wish mine had the double disk still!



Regards,
CC

Great example ! Thank you for your kind compliments also :-) My cutlass marks are very similar to yours along with the fuller, very interesting comparison :-). I have always felt this was an American assembled piece it is the main reason why I acquired it. Thank you for sharing your wonderful and interesting example double disk or not your example has allot of character and is quite unique . We can only imagine the history these pieces have survived.

[theswordcollector]

Originally Posted by Shakethetrees

Just because the blade is a match for another cutlass with a different hilt, I would not be too quick to change it.

Blades were sold by importers loose in bundles and mounted here and in England with hilts of whatever form the contract called for. A lot of them were not government contract pieces but made for the privateer/merchant market and followed no set pattern.

The guard of simple stirrup form made of thin wrought iron is probably original to the blade. I've seen a number of unquestionably correct pieces over the years with this thin material, so tread lightly!

You are quite correct loose and mounted blades were imported into the colonies legally and illegally. I do have the provenance of this piece without publishing it publicly and it is without a doubt a correct period piece.

[theswordcollector]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Nice sword, CC! I would agree with Shakethetrees on your sword in that the guard might be original to the hilt. We've seen the 'loose blade' phenomenon enough in the Colonies to know it was common practice. Of course, it might have been a refitted Rev War capture, etc. I would agree with you that it might be an officer's in that it's light, but definitely a naval piece.

TheSwordCollector, I would suggest getting your weapon looked at by a local naval museum (British Maritime Museum might be a good start, or send pics to the Smithsonian, who have a whole building dedicated to all things nautical). If that hilt is red maple, which I strongly suspect that it is, then you have an excessively rare sword as I described above (the 'Baltimore' pattern). These are the creme de la creme of naval pieces. The iron hilts are rare, but the wood gripped pieces fetch major prices. Good luck.

Thank you for your kind response and information. I will send photos to the Smithsonian and ask their opinion you are correct a very good suggestion. The hilt is maple I have studied sections of it for some time under high magnification and it does match maple 100%. It would be great if it is a Baltimore piece :-)

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by theswordcollector

...I understand now the slot was not for a officers knot but rather a lanyard ...

an officer's sword knot IS a lanyard., used as described to prevent the sword from being irretrievably dropped. officers had gold threaded silk knots, enlisted & NCOs, if they had them, would have had plain leather or coloured silk w/o any gold. officers didn't as a rule use cutlasses. there may of course have been exceptions. i personally would prefer a cutlass to my std. naval pattern USCG officer's sword i had to as part of my uniform. (as well as the fact it has a fairly useless dull stainless steel blade suitable only for parades.)

here's a photo of a warship's cutlass rack - no knots or lanyards apparent. i recall the racks on hms warrior in portsmouth here in the UK also did not have knots/lanyards on the racked cutlasses.



current USN/USCG enlisted cutlasses (and marine nco swords) do not use sword knot/lanyards.



i have added a plain brown leather sword knot to my dutchy klewang. as an ossifer i thought it looks undressed w/o one