Whale Bone Kampilan

oldschldude · 19th March 2016, 12:20 AM

Hello Everyone,
I need info for this Kampilan. Age? description? When was this handguard used? Thanks for all inputs. Oldschldude

Sajen · 19th March 2016, 02:53 PM

Very nice and great kampilan. I would guess that it is a middle until end of 19th century example. Would like to see the blade cleaned and etched. Also some better and bigger pictures. Can't remember to have seen a guard with chains attached. Maybe a Lumad influence?

Regards,
Detlef

Battara · 20th March 2016, 02:02 AM

Yes 19c. Needs some restoration and polish and etching. However, whalebone kampilans are hard to find.

Actually Detlef, occasionally Moro kampilans will have 4-in-1 chain maille as part of the hand guard. This is not Lumad but Moro. Good question though.....

I also agree that larger pictures and close ups would help tremendously when you get it.

Robert · 20th March 2016, 05:31 AM

Hello Oldschldude and welcome to the forum. I am in total agreement with what Detlef and Jose have already told you. I did though try to get a little more detail out of your photos. Not much better than the originals, but will have to do until you can post better ones after it arrives.

Best,
Robert

oldschldude · 20th March 2016, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

Hello Oldschldude and welcome to the forum. I am in total agreement with what Detlef and Jose have already told you. I did though try to get a little more detail out of your photos. Not much better than the originals, but will have to do until you can post better ones after it arrives.

Best,
Robert

Thanks, Ill put some new ones tomorrow. Also Thanks for peoples reply

Sajen · 20th March 2016, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Actually Detlef, occasionally Moro kampilans will have 4-in-1 chain maille as part of the hand guard. This is not Lumad but Moro. Good question though.....

Hello Jose,

like said, never seen this before. Can you show samples?

Regards,
Detlef

oldschldude · 21st March 2016, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldschldude

Thanks, Ill put some new ones tomorrow. Also Thanks for peoples reply

Hello,
Here's some new pics. Hope this help..Thanks!
P.S.
Just got a few questions. Just curious, Why dated mid to late 19th century and not an (late) 18th century sword (I wish). Is it determined by the chain mail used in the guard introduced during that time/ moro armour. Filipino whalers during that time? The wideness of mouth of crocodile on the hilt(shape of hilt)? Shape of blade?

Regards,
Oldschldude

drac2k · 21st March 2016, 12:34 PM

What a fantastic sword !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

carlos · 21st March 2016, 04:24 PM

Congratulations! Is a very beautiful sword , the kampilans are my favoutite swords !! And with whale bone ...my envy is great! !!
Thanks
Carlos

oldschldude · 22nd March 2016, 12:07 AM

Thanks for everyone's inputs and kind words. Oldschldude.

Battara · 22nd March 2016, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Jose,

like said, never seen this before. Can you show samples?

Regards,
Detlef

Since you asked, here are some pictures of one that was on eBay (and later owned by Rsword):

Battara · 22nd March 2016, 02:56 AM

And here is another example from the Peabody Museum here in the United States:

Battara · 22nd March 2016, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldschldude

Just got a few questions. Just curious, Why dated mid to late 19th century and not an (late) 18th century sword (I wish). Is it determined by the chain mail used in the guard introduced during that time/ moro armour. Filipino whalers during that time? The wideness of mouth of crocodile on the hilt(shape of hilt)? Shape of blade?

Regards,
Oldschldude

All good questions. On dating, you do have a good point. It was a safe dating, especially since many I have seen are from this time period. However, after looking once again at the patina on the cross guard,perhaps it could be earlier. Not much is known about these and dating.

oldschldude · 22nd March 2016, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

All good questions. On dating, you do have a good point. It was a safe dating, especially since many I have seen are from this time period. However, after looking once again at the patina on the cross guard,perhaps it could be earlier. Not much is known about these and dating.

Thank you Battara for posting pictures and replying to my post. My questions are to help build my knowledge base, based on these subjects.
Thanks again. Oldschldude

Ian · 22nd March 2016, 02:34 PM

Oldschldude:

Very nice kampilan and congrats on finding such a good piece.

I just have one question. Are you sure this hilt is whalebone? Old wood that has dried out and been "weathered" can look very similar. I'm not seeing the porosity in the hilt material that I associate with whale bone, but I can see a longitudinal "grain" that makes me think this is perhaps wood. Also, the carving has remained very crisp for whale bone, which tends to crumble a bit with repeated handling. The cross guard appears to be wood. Whale bone would also be a rather fragile material on which to hang chain mail.

Just a few thoughts.

Ian.

Sajen · 22nd March 2016, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Since you asked, here are some pictures of one that was on eBay (and later owned by Rsword):

Thank you very much Jose! Great examples!

Regards,
Detlef

oldschldude · 22nd March 2016, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Oldschldude:

Very nice kampilan and congrats on finding such a good piece.

I just have one question. Are you sure this hilt is whalebone? Old wood that has dried out and been "weathered" can look very similar. I'm not seeing the porosity in the hilt material that I associate with whale bone, but I can see a longitudinal "grain" that makes me think this is perhaps wood. Also, the carving has remained very crisp for whale bone, which tends to crumble a bit with repeated handling. The cross guard appears to be wood. Whale bone would also be a rather fragile material on which to hang chain mail.

Just a few thoughts.

Ian.

Hello Ian,
Thanks for the greetings! Good point there. Yes I'm sure its bone and not wood. I would like to take more close up pictures but its very fragile as the rattan reinforcing the hilt to the guard had already snapped. Although there's a part on the guard where the chain rubbing on the guard had rubbed off the dark patina exposing the bone and polishing the bone. (In one of the pics I already uploaded.) Its also possible to my opinion, that the guard is probably from much stronger part of the whale(or maybe even ivory) hence darker patina and stronger than the hilt as to supporting the chain as you mentioned. Thanks for your reply. Oldscldude.

I've edited this reply cause I found more pics in my phone. In one of the pics I attached, the hilt/handle looks like whale bone grain. One of the pics also is a close up. You could zoom into it. This Kamp is just really really old and needs attention but was stored safely for a long time. Thanks again..oldschldude.

Battara · 28th March 2016, 03:00 PM

By the look of better pictures, it sure looks bone to me!

oldschldude · 31st March 2016, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

By the look of better pictures, it sure looks bone to me!

Sometimes its hard to tell or analyze without clear or closeup pictures. (Got me looking at it again.) From some philippine swords I have seen in the internet, few do have white weathered bleached wood with patina or driftwood looking hilts or scabbards. Thanks Battara and everyone for their inputs...Oldscldude

Battara · 31st March 2016, 06:03 PM

Yup that's bone alright!

Great close ups!

19th March 2016, 12:20 AM	#1
oldschldude Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 17	Whale Bone Kampilan Hello Everyone, I need info for this Kampilan. Age? description? When was this handguard used? Thanks for all inputs. Oldschldude Attached Images

20th March 2016, 05:31 AM	#4
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Oldschldude and welcome to the forum. I am in total agreement with what Detlef and Jose have already told you. I did though try to get a little more detail out of your photos. Not much better than the originals, but will have to do until you can post better ones after it arrives. Best, Robert Attached Images

22nd March 2016, 12:07 AM	#10
oldschldude Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 17	Thanks! Thanks for everyone's inputs and kind words. Oldschldude.

22nd March 2016, 02:56 AM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	And here is another example from the Peabody Museum here in the United States: Attached Images

19th March 2016, 02:53 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,769	Very nice and great kampilan. I would guess that it is a middle until end of 19th century example. Would like to see the blade cleaned and etched. Also some better and bigger pictures. Can't remember to have seen a guard with chains attached. Maybe a Lumad influence? Regards, Detlef

20th March 2016, 02:02 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Yes 19c. Needs some restoration and polish and etching. However, whalebone kampilans are hard to find. Actually Detlef, occasionally Moro kampilans will have 4-in-1 chain maille as part of the hand guard. This is not Lumad but Moro. Good question though..... I also agree that larger pictures and close ups would help tremendously when you get it.

21st March 2016, 12:34 PM	#8
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,230	What a fantastic sword !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

21st March 2016, 04:24 PM	#9
carlos Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	Congratulations! Is a very beautiful sword , the kampilans are my favoutite swords !! And with whale bone ...my envy is great! !! Thanks Carlos

22nd March 2016, 02:34 PM	#15
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,197	Oldschldude: Very nice kampilan and congrats on finding such a good piece. I just have one question. Are you sure this hilt is whalebone? Old wood that has dried out and been "weathered" can look very similar. I'm not seeing the porosity in the hilt material that I associate with whale bone, but I can see a longitudinal "grain" that makes me think this is perhaps wood. Also, the carving has remained very crisp for whale bone, which tends to crumble a bit with repeated handling. The cross guard appears to be wood. Whale bone would also be a rather fragile material on which to hang chain mail. Just a few thoughts. Ian.

28th March 2016, 03:00 PM	#18
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	By the look of better pictures, it sure looks bone to me!

31st March 2016, 06:03 PM	#20
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Yup that's bone alright! Great close ups!