Ebay UK total Ban on knives, Where next for UK collectors?

Atlantia · 10th February 2009, 11:10 AM

Just in case anyone hasn't seen the other threads mentioning this, or the watchdog announcement, to improve safety ebay UK is set to ban the sale of all knives escept the ones most commonly used to kill (Kitchen Knives):

"the laws surrounding the sales of knives are extremely complex and so we have decided that the best way to protect our members and achieve the safety guarantees they have come to expect from us is to remove and ban all knives, with the exception of cutlery knives, from our UK and Ireland sites. "

"eBay's marketplace structure means that it will take time to work with our sellers to remove the knives currently for sale and prevent new listings from being posted. However, we are committed to achieving this as quickly as possible."

So, my question is, where will all of us UK collectors go to buy and sell our knives?
Is anyone using any of the other auction sites?

ebay anouncement

Gavin Nugent · 10th February 2009, 12:23 PM

List your knives and swords on ebay USA....but feel free to contact me if you wish to on sell any Chinese items of interest....

Gav

Robert · 10th February 2009, 01:18 PM

This place started up http://www.sharperdeals.net/ Hopefully it will grow to replace epray for sharp pointy thing sales.

Robert

katana · 10th February 2009, 02:28 PM

WORDS DO NOT DESCRIBE HOW I FEEL..

This is a knee jerk reaction to a consumer programme 'Watchdog' whom bought 'illegal' knives (for the UK) from, apparently, International sellers selling on eBay.UK. The credit card 'block' failed to operate with international sellers....a 'loop hole'. This could have been easily rectified....but eBay panicked...probably due to this statement...

".......Watchdog researchers bought five knives which are illegal to sell or carry in the UK from international sellers.......
Following the Watchdog investigation, Alf Hitchcock, deputy assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said it was "quite shocking that a retailer, and a responsible retailer at that, would be selling offensive weapons"......"

Even the Deputy Assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police cannot get his facts right.....

EBAY is NOT a RETAILER .....it is an ONLINE AUCTION VENUE

Regards David

kronckew · 10th February 2009, 04:28 PM

the police also 'forget' it is not illegal to possess knives, it's illegal only to use them as offfensive weapons. there are a few categories of knives, push daggers, butterfly, gravity & flick knives (switchblades), 'stealth' knives (plastic shivs) that are illegal to sell or buy (if you already own one you can keep it in the house, but it's illegal outside).

the show 'watchdog' committed a felony by purchasing and importing the illegal knives, one of which was actually an 'assisted opening' knife - not illegal - tho they referred to it as a flick knife, which is illegal. they did this just before xmas apparently, when everyone was most busy and stuff could slip thru customs - thus also showing felonious intent.

they purchased them from ebay USA and had them mailed in. they thus illegally imported the ones that were illegal (and legally imported the one that was not). this was a felony. they then carried them (in a locked case) in public. another felony (there being no amnesty in effect at the time). they did bring them to a police station where they were confiscated for destruction. no one was charged. bet i would have been had it been me.

anyway the UK ban appears to only affect UK sellers of legal items, which both watchdog and ebay say has met the law up till now by removing any illegal types prior to sale.

ebay only provides the venue for sale, the sellers are required to ensure that the sale is legal, not ebay. the buyer is required to ensure he's buying a legal item also.

anyhow, it's a bit early to see how draconian they make the ban and whether they'll be able to also ban us from buying overseas items which are legal. i have a number of household chefs knives of various types, lengths and ages tho...

i just know there's a nice sword still listed i cannot bid on, even tho it's legal for me to do it.

nanny must protect the sheeple tho, it's the modern liberal way -

change - yes we can.

katana · 10th February 2009, 05:51 PM

It is not the first time 'Watchdog' have 'targeted' internet auction sites....Amazon had the 'treatment' awhile ago.....the difference is that Amazon dealt with it and blocked the 'loop-holes'. eBay 'rolled over' ...frightened to stand-up to 'sensationalised criticism'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/...fering_da.html

I would hope that eBay re-think their position ...surely just to allow the sale of vintage/antique would be better than nothing. It would make sense that they introduce a registration system for buyers and sellers ....after all they only have to view your feedback to see that you collect / sell weapons.

I also feel that the 'over-reaction' by eBay may have repercussions elsewhere on the internet.

Good points Kronck

Regards David

spiral · 10th February 2009, 06:36 PM

Well I am glad I got what I did over the last 9 years.

Sadley Antiques will be affected as well, Ebay doesnt have the staff to verify what knives are antique or not & we see sellers lie on ebay all the time.

O well , glad I saw the good old days as we will remeber it when we look back in a few years time.

Sad day though.

Spiral

Andrew · 10th February 2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

the police also 'forget' it is not illegal to possess knives, it's illegal only to use them as offfensive weapons. there are a few categories of knives, push daggers, butterfly, gravity & flick knives (switchblades), 'stealth' knives (plastic shivs) that are illegal to sell or buy (if you already own one you can keep it in the house, but it's illegal outside).

the show 'watchdog' committed a felony by purchasing and importing the illegal knives, one of which was actually an 'assisted opening' knife - not illegal - tho they referred to it as a flick knife, which is illegal. they did this just before xmas apparently, when everyone was most busy and stuff could slip thru customs - thus also showing felonious intent.

they purchased them from ebay USA and had them mailed in. they thus illegally imported the ones that were illegal (and legally imported the one that was not). this was a felony. they then carried them (in a locked case) in public. another felony (there being no amnesty in effect at the time). they did bring them to a police station where they were confiscated for destruction. no one was charged. bet i would have been had it been me.

anyway the UK ban appears to only affect UK sellers of legal items, which both watchdog and ebay say has met the law up till now by removing any illegal types prior to sale.

ebay only provides the venue for sale, the sellers are required to ensure that the sale is legal, not ebay. the buyer is required to ensure he's buying a legal item also.

anyhow, it's a bit early to see how draconian they make the ban and whether they'll be able to also ban us from buying overseas items which are legal. i have a number of household chefs knives of various types, lengths and ages tho...

i just know there's a nice sword still listed i cannot bid on, even tho it's legal for me to do it.

nanny must protect the sheeple tho, it's the modern liberal way -

change - yes we can.

Let's leave the political commentary out of this thread and, indeed, off this forum altogether.

Rich · 10th February 2009, 10:06 PM

I suggest our UK brethren use Ebay US and just list their country of origin
as US. I think (?) you can still safely use the UK as your mailing/billing
address with ebay US and Paypal. I doubt the "watchers" are checking anything
besides the listings themselves. Just a thought; take the chance at your own
risk.

Rich

Atlantia · 10th February 2009, 10:47 PM

Gav,
Good idea, I wonder if they will close the 'just list and buy on .com' loophole?
Hmmmm.

Robert.
Thats what I'm thinking, find a new venue!
I think that a whole lot of UK eabyers will be looking to jump-ship and as we all know, we dont just buy and sell weapons! I bet those who shift to another site will take the rest of their militaria/ethnographic/edged inventory with them! Its a golden opportunity for a new site to pick up serious traffic and sales.

David.
Statistically the most 'dangerous' knives in the UK are Kitchen knives! The only ones they arent banning!
How they can justify banning the sale of antique swords because a researcher managed to buy a few penknives and a plastic combat knife from the US is a mystery!
But its going to lose them a huge amount of money and some serious buyers and sellers.
The knee-jerk that scored the own-goal.

kronckew
They seem to have used the 'register your card to buy' rule in a random 'some buyers can, others cant' way.
Perhaps they want to show sellers its not worth listing knives anyway?

David
Ebay's mouthpiece on Watchdog said it would be a blanket ban with only cutlery being exempted so don't hold your breath for any common sense in its implimentation.

Spiral.
Ah nostalgia for the days when eBay ran perfectly well on a little trust and common sense!
Who'd have thought it looking at it now?

Rich
I think they'll be no shortage of people trying it but I fear ebay will close the loophole asap.
We need a new venue (and everyone of the UK collectors need to jump to it)

Berkley · 10th February 2009, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

I suggest our UK brethren use Ebay US and just list their country of origin as US.

Great idea as long as they're willing to take payment in US dollars. That ₤ tends to stand out, though

.

Atlantia · 10th February 2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkley

Great idea as long as they're willing to take payment in US dollars. That ₤ tends to stand out, though

.

Way the £ is going we'll soon be accepting payment in chickens or shiny pebbles!

spiral · 11th February 2009, 03:22 PM

A friend of mines just emailed to say hes just had an old bone handled knife pulled off ebay uk, as thier is not any evidence of what type of animal the bone came from!

Crazyier & crazier!

Spiral

asomotif · 11th February 2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

But its going to lose them a huge amount of money and some serious buyers and sellers.
The knee-jerk that scored the own-goal.

Ebay is a big commercial organisation listed in the stock exchange.
So when they are portrayed as a retailer of illegal arms, they will easily change their policy drastically in order to avoid problems with the UK government...

Same as they accept chinese sellers to make big profits on shippingcosts.
if they would ban this chinese way of working they would probably loose their marketshare there. Its'all 'bout the money...

You cannot imagine that this company once started with a private collector who thought it would be nice to have a place for all kinds of collectors to meet.

Personally I am also fed up with ebay.
If you are interested in Borneo it will take you hours to find a single good item between 99,9% rubbisch being sold from certain areas which you can nor exempt in the seatch machine they offer.

Tim Simmons · 11th February 2009, 08:48 PM

Politics aside. Road deaths uk 2008 around 3000, fatal stabbings around 300. You might say stabbings are intentional, I doubt that when talking about most teens, that is a bit like saying all adult bad driving has the intent to kill. I do not know what the answer is. I hate cars, I drive a car 15 years old as I would rather spend my money else where. There is something sickening when the comfortable but ignorant middle ground get motivated like this from all political parties, they do not like to miss a trick when they see one.

All the losses are tragic but not our fault or that of the individual weapon/car involved.

10th February 2009, 11:10 AM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Ebay UK total Ban on knives, Where next for UK collectors? Just in case anyone hasn't seen the other threads mentioning this, or the watchdog announcement, to improve safety ebay UK is set to ban the sale of all knives escept the ones most commonly used to kill (Kitchen Knives): "the laws surrounding the sales of knives are extremely complex and so we have decided that the best way to protect our members and achieve the safety guarantees they have come to expect from us is to remove and ban all knives, with the exception of cutlery knives, from our UK and Ireland sites. " "eBay's marketplace structure means that it will take time to work with our sellers to remove the knives currently for sale and prevent new listings from being posted. However, we are committed to achieving this as quickly as possible." So, my question is, where will all of us UK collectors go to buy and sell our knives? Is anyone using any of the other auction sites? ebay anouncement Last edited by Atlantia; 10th February 2009 at 12:14 PM.

10th February 2009, 12:23 PM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Simple answer List your knives and swords on ebay USA....but feel free to contact me if you wish to on sell any Chinese items of interest.... Gav

10th February 2009, 04:28 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,178	the police also 'forget' it is not illegal to possess knives, it's illegal only to use them as offfensive weapons. there are a few categories of knives, push daggers, butterfly, gravity & flick knives (switchblades), 'stealth' knives (plastic shivs) that are illegal to sell or buy (if you already own one you can keep it in the house, but it's illegal outside). the show 'watchdog' committed a felony by purchasing and importing the illegal knives, one of which was actually an 'assisted opening' knife - not illegal - tho they referred to it as a flick knife, which is illegal. they did this just before xmas apparently, when everyone was most busy and stuff could slip thru customs - thus also showing felonious intent. they purchased them from ebay USA and had them mailed in. they thus illegally imported the ones that were illegal (and legally imported the one that was not). this was a felony. they then carried them (in a locked case) in public. another felony (there being no amnesty in effect at the time). they did bring them to a police station where they were confiscated for destruction. no one was charged. bet i would have been had it been me. anyway the UK ban appears to only affect UK sellers of legal items, which both watchdog and ebay say has met the law up till now by removing any illegal types prior to sale. ebay only provides the venue for sale, the sellers are required to ensure that the sale is legal, not ebay. the buyer is required to ensure he's buying a legal item also. anyhow, it's a bit early to see how draconian they make the ban and whether they'll be able to also ban us from buying overseas items which are legal. i have a number of household chefs knives of various types, lengths and ages tho... i just know there's a nice sword still listed i cannot bid on, even tho it's legal for me to do it. nanny must protect the sheeple tho, it's the modern liberal way - change - yes we can. Last edited by kronckew; 10th February 2009 at 05:45 PM.

10th February 2009, 05:51 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	It is not the first time 'Watchdog' have 'targeted' internet auction sites....Amazon had the 'treatment' awhile ago.....the difference is that Amazon dealt with it and blocked the 'loop-holes'. eBay 'rolled over' ...frightened to stand-up to 'sensationalised criticism'. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/...fering_da.html I would hope that eBay re-think their position ...surely just to allow the sale of vintage/antique would be better than nothing. It would make sense that they introduce a registration system for buyers and sellers ....after all they only have to view your feedback to see that you collect / sell weapons. I also feel that the 'over-reaction' by eBay may have repercussions elsewhere on the internet. Good points Kronck Regards David Last edited by katana; 10th February 2009 at 07:39 PM.

10th February 2009, 01:18 PM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	This place started up http://www.sharperdeals.net/ Hopefully it will grow to replace epray for sharp pointy thing sales. Robert

10th February 2009, 02:28 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	WORDS DO NOT DESCRIBE HOW I FEEL.. This is a knee jerk reaction to a consumer programme 'Watchdog' whom bought 'illegal' knives (for the UK) from, apparently, International sellers selling on eBay.UK. The credit card 'block' failed to operate with international sellers....a 'loop hole'. This could have been easily rectified....but eBay panicked...probably due to this statement... ".......Watchdog researchers bought five knives which are illegal to sell or carry in the UK from international sellers....... Following the Watchdog investigation, Alf Hitchcock, deputy assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said it was "quite shocking that a retailer, and a responsible retailer at that, would be selling offensive weapons"......" Even the Deputy Assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police cannot get his facts right..... EBAY is NOT a RETAILER .....it is an ONLINE AUCTION VENUE Regards David

10th February 2009, 06:36 PM	#7
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Well I am glad I got what I did over the last 9 years. Sadley Antiques will be affected as well, Ebay doesnt have the staff to verify what knives are antique or not & we see sellers lie on ebay all the time. O well , glad I saw the good old days as we will remeber it when we look back in a few years time. Sad day though. Spiral

10th February 2009, 10:06 PM	#9
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	I suggest our UK brethren use Ebay US and just list their country of origin as US. I think (?) you can still safely use the UK as your mailing/billing address with ebay US and Paypal. I doubt the "watchers" are checking anything besides the listings themselves. Just a thought; take the chance at your own risk. Rich

10th February 2009, 10:47 PM	#10
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Gav, Good idea, I wonder if they will close the 'just list and buy on .com' loophole? Hmmmm. Robert. Thats what I'm thinking, find a new venue! I think that a whole lot of UK eabyers will be looking to jump-ship and as we all know, we dont just buy and sell weapons! I bet those who shift to another site will take the rest of their militaria/ethnographic/edged inventory with them! Its a golden opportunity for a new site to pick up serious traffic and sales. David. Statistically the most 'dangerous' knives in the UK are Kitchen knives! The only ones they arent banning! How they can justify banning the sale of antique swords because a researcher managed to buy a few penknives and a plastic combat knife from the US is a mystery! But its going to lose them a huge amount of money and some serious buyers and sellers. The knee-jerk that scored the own-goal. kronckew They seem to have used the 'register your card to buy' rule in a random 'some buyers can, others cant' way. Perhaps they want to show sellers its not worth listing knives anyway? David Ebay's mouthpiece on Watchdog said it would be a blanket ban with only cutlery being exempted so don't hold your breath for any common sense in its implimentation. Spiral. Ah nostalgia for the days when eBay ran perfectly well on a little trust and common sense! Who'd have thought it looking at it now? Rich I think they'll be no shortage of people trying it but I fear ebay will close the loophole asap. We need a new venue (and everyone of the UK collectors need to jump to it)

11th February 2009, 03:22 PM	#13
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	A friend of mines just emailed to say hes just had an old bone handled knife pulled off ebay uk, as thier is not any evidence of what type of animal the bone came from! Crazyier & crazier! Spiral

11th February 2009, 08:48 PM	#15
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Politics aside. Road deaths uk 2008 around 3000, fatal stabbings around 300. You might say stabbings are intentional, I doubt that when talking about most teens, that is a bit like saying all adult bad driving has the intent to kill. I do not know what the answer is. I hate cars, I drive a car 15 years old as I would rather spend my money else where. There is something sickening when the comfortable but ignorant middle ground get motivated like this from all political parties, they do not like to miss a trick when they see one. All the losses are tragic but not our fault or that of the individual weapon/car involved.