Rare Pilipino Swords....

[Spunjer]

...just came off ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...524280544&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...524281233&rd=1

seems like the seller put up the wrong date. older pieces perhaps?

btw, congrats to the winners...

Edit : with the sellers kind permission I am posting the pictures of the talibon/garab and the Mandaya bolo for future reference .

[tom hyle]

The top one is a talibon, of the type now starting to be referred to as garab. It looks like a 19th c. one, AFAIK. It's just like the pictures in the books, and rather large, and this style is beginning to generate quite a lot of interest. The other of course, appears to be a Mandaya sword. It appears to have been etched to show an inlaid edge toward the tip. Also, note its handle is similar to those on some talibons (plamenkos?) we recently discussed. I was watching these; all I could afford to do

[Spunjer]

so that's a garab! i've been calling it talibon. yeah, battara thinks it's much older that what the seller stated. would anyone else care to comment about this sword?

the mandaya sword looks to be in great condition. i believe this type of sword was being discussed on the kampilan thread. funny how the prices of these swords jacks up whenever it's discussed. comments?

[Battara]

Rsword and I believe the Mandaya sword to be 1930s, though for me the scabbard maybe a little later. Here is a link to an old discussion on the matter:

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000548.html

[tom hyle]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

funny how the prices of these swords jacks up whenever it's discussed. comments?

Yeah, we suck like that. Visayan swords were about to get popular, anyway (near to Moro in geography, design, and quality, as the Moro ones get pricier; same for Lumad), but we hastened this, I do not doubt, and not only that, but it was gonna be the binagons and tenegres with the Moro-like long cone ferules, not talibons, IMHO, but now this "book style" talibon is through the roof; watched one go for $500 at auction the other day! Keep in mind it was hard to get $50 for one less than 5 years ago. Good thing I do already own a very closely related style, but it doesn't have the "book pommel", and you know things have to look like the book(etc.) picture; 1/2 again the price and double the salabilty right there

[Rick]

The rattan bindings on this sword look pretty bright compared to this example Artzi sold me , he dated it to the late 19c.

This example http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...6524280544&rd=1 could of course been re-wrapped around or during WWII to refurbish it . The carving is pretty crisp also which might point to a newer example .

[Battara]

I would not be too sure of "newness". Here is a picture of the hilt of my talibon and it has an old inscription on the scabbard of "Tagbilaran 1901" where the forces on Bohol surrendered to the Americans (many were from Cebu). Notice the lighter color of the rattan bindings and the crispness of the carving. Unfortunately, part of the hilt is damaged.

[Ian]

Spunjer:

Both the garab and the Mandayan bolo appear to be in very good condition and perhaps not all that old. I agree with Rick that the garab, in particular, looks remarkably pristine.

From their appearances, both of them could have been made in the mid- to late-20th C. but could also be earlier examples that were acquired in excellent (unused) condition and maintained well by a previous owner.

I was a participant in bidding on the Mandaya bolo, but another forumite beat me on that one. Hopefully we will see some more pictures. Oh well, win some - lose some -- the collector's motto.

Ian.

[Montino Bourbon]

When I click on the fgirst li9nks in this thread I get 'Invalid link'; is there any way around this?

[Ian]

Hi Montino:

Those links seem to be working okay for me. Maybe if you copy and paste them into the command line of your browser they may work better. eBay addresses can be picky sometimes.

Ian.

[Spunjer]

Yeah, we suck like that. Visayan swords were about to get popular, anyway

well, here's a visayan knife i'm planning on selling in the near future (i'm visayan and i own the knife). you folks have first dibs...

[Spunjer]

on a more serious note;

ian, you said:

Both the garab and the Mandayan bolo appear to be in very good condition and perhaps not all that old. I agree with Rick that the garab, in particular, looks remarkably pristine.

From their appearances, both of them could have been made in the mid- to late-20th C. but could also be earlier examples that were acquired in excellent (unused) condition and maintained well by a previous owner.

i'm kinda leaning on your former comment since i lost but wouldn't it be something if it was the latter? when i was back in the in the philippines, i was hoping to find even a facsimile of these visayan swords. well, as you can see, no luck...

[Federico]

I gonna agree with Battara and vote that at least the Garab is an early 20th century model (circa insurrection period). I have always been told that this was the early style garab due to carving style (most notably a Pulanesque looking cross), a carving style that largely dissappears in later dates. I have plenty of old swords with pristine looks. Years in a pristine storage conditions and decent maintenance can go a long way in preserving looks. Anyways, this early style for a long time has been very difficult to find (took me 4 years to find mine), finding good examples now is only made worse now with the higher prices.

[Spunjer]

...finding good examples now is only made worse now with the higher prices.

well, if this is indeed an older style, this one is actually a "bargain" compared to similar ones i've been seeing on ebay. as for the mandaya sword, it looks like the price is set at $300.00+...

[Battara]

So Spunjer, how old is your Visayan knife? How expensive is it?

[Rick]

It's MINE !!!!
$ 300.00 cash Spunjer !
Beat that !

[Battara]

NUTS!

[ibeam]

Don't Worry Battara, I got another one for you... this one even has some battle scars on the blade.

Hey Spunger, funny you posted that butter knife. It reminded me of my butter knife I use for practice.

Ian, I'll post some pics of the Mandaya bolo when I get it and also pics of another example.

[ibeam]

Here is another example of an older garab for comparison to the one above. The seller for the swords said these came from a lady's husban who brought them back during WWII. I would probably agree with Rick's comment as to the age.

[Spunjer]

ibeam,
i would hold off on your knife. double edge butter spreaders are hard to come by, lol.

I would probably agree with Rick's comment as to the age.

that it has been re-wrapped, or a newer example?

as far as the carvings on the hilt is concerned, i don't think it's not much crispier than battara's or your garab's (btw, cool garab. no broken fin or anything ) althought the carvings on the scabbard's toe does look pretty crispy.
as for the mandaya sword, congrats you've got yourself a rare piece there. can't wait to see some close ups (hint, hint)

[Conogre]

I have a problem with "book swords", meaning those with relatively few examples pictured in many to most books, as not only is the price radically elevated on them, so often it is, or at least WAS, assumed that ALL specimens have to look exactly like the known examples.
When I picked this up for $35 five years ago, even the more learned members swere speculating that it was a "bolo that may have been made by a Philippine smith who'd seen and was influenced by a kukri."(no disrespect intended, as it just shows how obscure some types were even just a few years ago)
From all of the information that has been found since that time, I, at least, am very comfortable with the fact that this is a Manaya sword, base upon the blade shape and the remaining carving on the scabbard, and furthermore, a true weapon as opposed to a tool/machete type implement as there would be no practical advantage in a sharpened upper curve EXCEPT in use as a slashing weapon.
It's so easy to forget that often only extremely impressive examples were, and still are pictured, but that for every Datu there were dozens, if not hundreds of simple warriors
whose weapons were much more basic but did the majority of the real fighting, thus making their condition, of necessity, much rougher.
I often find myself extremely frustrated as individuals make pronouncements of validity based upon just one or two widely seen examples, while it's been proven over and over that there was often a tremndous amount of variation in many to most weapons used and produced by hand on a tribal level.
In the meantime, I keep buying my "strange pieces"based upon gut instinct and similarities to known examples and have been happy that I have time after time that I did.
While I don't have many "Datu class" pieces, each time another form finally gets "discovered" I feel priveledged to at least HAVE a piece from the past that has all but disappeared.
That doesn't mean I'm not envious of those with the superb examples, of course (**grin**), and congratulations aquiring some fine pieces....just in case I happen to be in the area around midnight sometime in the future, you're located where again? **grin**
Mike

[Rick]

I'd like to make a comment at this point , my remarks in this thread were more observations than a pronouncement . I hope that everyone can read them as such .

[Conogre]

Of course....you mean they could possibly be taken any other way?**grin**
Mike

[ibeam]

Here are some pics of the Mandaya swords.

[Ian]

ibeam:

Those are two of the best looking Mandayan bolos I've seen. They are hard to find swords, as you have probably observed. Both seem to have some age -- any idea how old based on provenance?

Congratulations.

[Spunjer]

congrats, ibeam! scored a nice piece.
the triangular metal piece on the handleand those "disc"; are they silver??? the handle seems to be made out of kamagong. pretty cool!

[tom hyle]

I really like the tack work, and the S PI metal "ear"/"cheek".

[Federico]

I cant get over how the upturned scabbard on the Mandaya bolos remind me of the pics Spunjer brought back of the Sanduko bolos. Particularly with the diety-esque pommel, cant help but think there is more than a coincidence.

[Spunjer]

I cant get over how the upturned scabbard on the Mandaya bolos remind me of the pics Spunjer brought back of the Sanduko bolos.

y'know, i was thinking about the same thing... predecessors?

[Spunjer]

are visayan swords laminated? any examples?