Pajang Keris

maxbliss888 · 19th June 2015, 04:28 AM

My friend's Pajang to share... Was told that it was meant for execution...

David · 19th June 2015, 05:53 AM

I believe the idea of the keris panjang being an executioner's keris is a bit of a myth or at least an exaggeration. The panjang, as i understand it, is a status piece, to be held by those of rank and authority. Therefore it may have been the choice of keris for execution simply because it was held by those with authority to execute. I don't think it was a style of keris that was created specifically for capital punishment. I doubt that most panjang were ever intended to be used in that manner, only that they could be because they were held by someone who might have the power to actually do it.

maxbliss888 · 19th June 2015, 07:13 AM

ɬɧąŋƙʂ David,

Glad to know that it is not necessary a Keris used for execution as it will not be a comfortable idea to place this at home.

As this is a Pajang found in Thailand, is there any different from those from Indonesia?

Jean · 19th June 2015, 02:08 PM

Hello Max,
As David said this is a keris panjang (long) while Pajang used to be a short-lived Indonesian kingdom which raised after the Majapahit period (16th century) and also a reference style of javanese blade.
I attach the pics of 2 keris panjang supposedly originating from East Sumatra for comparison with yours.
Regards

maxbliss888 · 19th June 2015, 02:14 PM

Hello Jean,

Thanks for the clarification.

Nice looking Keris you have there. Really like the one with silver embossed design..

Jean · 19th June 2015, 03:11 PM

Hello Max,
Thanks. As you see there are not very significant differences besides the carved decoration of the hilt & scabbard, and possibly the style of greneng and tikel alis. Please show us a picture of the base of the blade (sor-soran) for allowing a more detailed comparison.
Regards

asomotif · 19th June 2015, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

The panjang, as i understand it, is a status piece, to be held by those of rank and authority

Like this Teuku from Northern Sumatra.

David · 19th June 2015, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxbliss888

As this is a Pajang found in Thailand, is there any different from those from Indonesia?

Max, i am really not quite certain of the origin of your keris panjang, but please be aware that simply because a keris is found in Thailand does not necessarily mean that it originated there.

The panjang form seems to have begun in Sumatra and migrated to the Peninsula areas. I am unaware of their use or status in Thailand. In fact i am not aware of Thailand having much keris culture of it's own to speak of so i would image that most keris blades found there did not originate there, but perhaps there was more blade production than i know. I think they are generally only found in the southern extremes of Thailand (the northern part of the Malay Peninsula).

maxbliss888 · 20th June 2015, 07:27 AM

Hi!

The Keris were found from Southern Thailand and I am not sure it's origin. Perhaps it comes from Indonesia...

David · 20th June 2015, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxbliss888

Perhaps it comes from Indonesia...

Better photos would be helpful including close-ups.

kai · 21st June 2015, 09:53 AM

Hello Max,

The scabbard and also the hilt do look like contemporary replacements of lesser quality; well possible these have been done locally in southern Thailand.

A close-up of the base of the blade would be really important to discuss the origin and age of the blade.

BTW, Jean's second blade does look unusual and a close-up of the base of the blade would also be very interesting!

Regards,
Kai

Jean · 22nd June 2015, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

BTW, Jean's second blade does look unusual and a close-up of the base of the blade would also be very interesting!

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,
Pics of the base of the 2 blades as per your request. The blades may look brand new but they are not (originally covered with black rust and just cleaned in vinegar & scrubbed with kitchen cream).
Regards

kai · 23rd June 2015, 10:54 AM

Hello Jean,

Thanks for the pics!

Quote:

Pics of the base of the 2 blades as per your request. The blades may look brand new but they are not (originally covered with black rust and just cleaned in vinegar & scrubbed with kitchen cream).

Yes, 55A; you swapped the hilt though.

Have you tried to etch them? Usually, I prefer these blades to show some activity (even if limited as typical for the region and blade style).

The keris panjang with the wooden scabbard is a really sweet, typical example with well above-average blade and very nice hilt! The scroll work at the base is typical (note some loss to the greneng from long-time wear).

The example with silver-covered scabbard has a variant blade that I have a really tough time to place. Quite possibly from Sumatra and genuinely antique but I'm far from certain that all is Minang workmanship. BTW, which town does the provenance point to?

The greneng are based on the traditional layout but with some kinks; also the crisp short sogokan are really unusual. Has anyone seen anything similar?

Regards,
Kai

Jean · 23rd June 2015, 03:07 PM

Hello Kai,
Thanks for your comments.
I replaced the hilt of the silver panjang kris indeed as the original one was dyed and may be made from synthetic materials...
The blade is not Minang for sure but it looks old, and the scabbard is more recent. The Minang story was told to me by the Dutch seller but I cannot guarantee it .... Anyway the silver work is of good quality and most probably made in Sumatra.
I had some bahari blades lightly etched in Java for achieving a more "antique" look but they appear dull after treatment.
Regards

19th June 2015, 04:28 AM	#1
maxbliss888 Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Bangkok Posts: 150	Pajang Keris My friend's Pajang to share... Was told that it was meant for execution... Attached Images

19th June 2015, 07:13 AM	#3
maxbliss888 Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Bangkok Posts: 150	Paging Keris ɬɧąŋƙʂ David, Glad to know that it is not necessary a Keris used for execution as it will not be a comfortable idea to place this at home. As this is a Pajang found in Thailand, is there any different from those from Indonesia?

19th June 2015, 02:08 PM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Max, As David said this is a keris panjang (long) while Pajang used to be a short-lived Indonesian kingdom which raised after the Majapahit period (16th century) and also a reference style of javanese blade. I attach the pics of 2 keris panjang supposedly originating from East Sumatra for comparison with yours. Regards Attached Images

19th June 2015, 02:14 PM	#5
maxbliss888 Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Bangkok Posts: 150	Keris Panjang Hello Jean, Thanks for the clarification. Nice looking Keris you have there. Really like the one with silver embossed design.. Last edited by maxbliss888; 20th June 2015 at 07:28 AM.

20th June 2015, 07:27 AM	#9
maxbliss888 Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Bangkok Posts: 150	Keris Hi! The Keris were found from Southern Thailand and I am not sure it's origin. Perhaps it comes from Indonesia...

19th June 2015, 05:53 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,121	I believe the idea of the keris panjang being an executioner's keris is a bit of a myth or at least an exaggeration. The panjang, as i understand it, is a status piece, to be held by those of rank and authority. Therefore it may have been the choice of keris for execution simply because it was held by those with authority to execute. I don't think it was a style of keris that was created specifically for capital punishment. I doubt that most panjang were ever intended to be used in that manner, only that they could be because they were held by someone who might have the power to actually do it.

19th June 2015, 03:11 PM	#6
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Max, Thanks. As you see there are not very significant differences besides the carved decoration of the hilt & scabbard, and possibly the style of greneng and tikel alis. Please show us a picture of the base of the blade (sor-soran) for allowing a more detailed comparison. Regards

21st June 2015, 09:53 AM	#11
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Max, The scabbard and also the hilt do look like contemporary replacements of lesser quality; well possible these have been done locally in southern Thailand. A close-up of the base of the blade would be really important to discuss the origin and age of the blade. BTW, Jean's second blade does look unusual and a close-up of the base of the blade would also be very interesting! Regards, Kai

23rd June 2015, 03:07 PM	#14
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Kai, Thanks for your comments. I replaced the hilt of the silver panjang kris indeed as the original one was dyed and may be made from synthetic materials... The blade is not Minang for sure but it looks old, and the scabbard is more recent. The Minang story was told to me by the Dutch seller but I cannot guarantee it .... Anyway the silver work is of good quality and most probably made in Sumatra. I had some bahari blades lightly etched in Java for achieving a more "antique" look but they appear dull after treatment. Regards