Colonial cosh swagger stick

Tim Simmons · 6th July 2024, 04:24 PM

At a flea market this morning and found this rather nice colonial cosh swagger stick. Compacted leather discs on a iron core construction late 19th early 20th century. I do not think it anything to do with ww1 trench artifacts. Although the white metal alloy parts are European in influence it is not European manufacture well certainly not British. My thoughts are East African could be Indian but??? African. Over all length 62cm the steel tip is 47mm long which I assume is the whacking and poking end. A much better buy than a few packs of those cold unpleasant eating pre-made packs of sandwiches that are so popular in the UK. yuk

Tim Simmons · 6th July 2024, 05:38 PM

Have been researching as you do when you have not easily identifiable artifacts. There may be the possibility that this might be a Bosun's starter or persuader which would make it earlier in manufacture than previously stated. The metal work is European in style. However with a steel tip I could think it far to aggressive for the purpose of stirring a fellow to work?

C4RL · 6th July 2024, 08:43 PM

A bit unlikely but how long is it? Yard stick?

.

Tim Simmons · 7th July 2024, 06:44 AM

62cm or just over 24 inches . Too short for a yard stick.

RobT · 7th July 2024, 04:53 PM

Hi Tim Simmons,

I have one of these but it is cane length (33.5" [85.9cm]). I have frequently seen these at antique shows and have been told that they are some sort of Western European ethnographic walking stick that also serves as a weapon. One dealer said it is called a malela but the only thing I could find online close to that name is the Basque Makila (also spelled Makhila) and the Basque walking stick doesn't really look like your stick or my walking stick. My stick doesn't have a metal cap but there is what looks like a ghost of one so it may have fallen off. The ferrule on mine is brass with a rounded, not pointed end and mine also doesn't have a band like yours. I should also mention that I have another stick of the same leather washer over steel shaft construction with a horn handle, silver band, and a conventional two piece (steel & iron) ferrule. I always thought that it was made in India.

Sincerely,
RobT

Tim Simmons · 7th July 2024, 06:33 PM

It could be an Anglo Indian thing. Just that all the iron/steel rod core stuff I have handled has been African. However yes could be Indian come to think of it the metal work would fit that. A lot of Indian metal work had a Western feel even a lot of gothic revival imagery on metalwork trays and other artifact made for colonials and for export. The metal tip is heavy. I could be changing my mind on the origin. Although not a deadly arms length weapon in a close up situation not a lot of fun to be struck or poked in the face with.

RobT · 1st September 2024, 04:57 PM

Hi All,

While searching the net for information about a completely unrelated subject (a vintage 24” Lufkin combination square), a number of sites selling so called “plantation canes” were provided courtesy of eBay tracking. Apparently, when I initially was searching the net about these canes for this thread, eBay was following my efforts and provided a number of sellers with these canes for sale. All of these sellers allege that these are US civil war era “plantation canes”. I did a search for "plantation cane" and found many sites offering them for sale. The items shown range in length from cane to swagger stick. Evidently, from what I read, they were used to beat slaves that had done something to displease their owners. Given the cane’s construction, I find this explanation as plausible as it is repugnant. Here is a typical seller’s site: https://www.bargainjohn.com/product/walking-stick-4/.. On another (but in a strangely related) note,, I know from past experience that any search involving “canes” will turn up various sites featuring attractive people of both sexes from teen to middle age being subjected to similar punishment. I wonder what eBay thought of that.

Sincerely,
RobT

Tim Simmons · 1st September 2024, 10:14 PM

Rob that is pretty fantastic, thank you. I knew it was a nasty thing but it has interest. Great to actually pin it down. It could be quite old. British plantation slavery was ended 1830 something off the top of my head. Would it be in use after?
.

RobT · 1st September 2024, 11:16 PM

Tim Simmons,

Slavery in the US didn’t completely end until 12/1865. Even after that, the socio-cultural and economic conditions remained largely unchanged. Blacks were free in name only and were for the most part faced with two choices. They could either work for their former masters for room and board plus almost non-existent wages or starve. It must also be understood that, throughout the country but most especially in the south, black individuals had virtually no protection from whites. If a white person wished to kill a black person for any reason, he or she was free to do so without fear of the slightest penalty. (The sport of coon hunting didn’t always mean going after small, furry animals.) Given the above realities, I would wager that the plantation canes were carried and used well after the civil war. Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that they were still employed well into the 20th century,

Sincerely,
RobT

Tim Simmons · 2nd September 2024, 07:25 AM

British empire slavery ender 1807 but it could have been brought to the UK from the USA.

6th July 2024, 04:24 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Colonial cosh swagger stick At a flea market this morning and found this rather nice colonial cosh swagger stick. Compacted leather discs on a iron core construction late 19th early 20th century. I do not think it anything to do with ww1 trench artifacts. Although the white metal alloy parts are European in influence it is not European manufacture well certainly not British. My thoughts are East African could be Indian but??? African. Over all length 62cm the steel tip is 47mm long which I assume is the whacking and poking end. A much better buy than a few packs of those cold unpleasant eating pre-made packs of sandwiches that are so popular in the UK. yuk Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 6th July 2024 at 04:53 PM. Reason: spelling

7th July 2024, 04:53 PM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 493	European Ethnographic Walking Stick? Hi Tim Simmons, I have one of these but it is cane length (33.5" [85.9cm]). I have frequently seen these at antique shows and have been told that they are some sort of Western European ethnographic walking stick that also serves as a weapon. One dealer said it is called a malela but the only thing I could find online close to that name is the Basque Makila (also spelled Makhila) and the Basque walking stick doesn't really look like your stick or my walking stick. My stick doesn't have a metal cap but there is what looks like a ghost of one so it may have fallen off. The ferrule on mine is brass with a rounded, not pointed end and mine also doesn't have a band like yours. I should also mention that I have another stick of the same leather washer over steel shaft construction with a horn handle, silver band, and a conventional two piece (steel & iron) ferrule. I always thought that it was made in India. Sincerely, RobT Last edited by RobT; 7th July 2024 at 04:56 PM. Reason: clarification

1st September 2024, 04:57 PM	#7
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 493	US Antebellum Hi All, While searching the net for information about a completely unrelated subject (a vintage 24” Lufkin combination square), a number of sites selling so called “plantation canes” were provided courtesy of eBay tracking. Apparently, when I initially was searching the net about these canes for this thread, eBay was following my efforts and provided a number of sellers with these canes for sale. All of these sellers allege that these are US civil war era “plantation canes”. I did a search for "plantation cane" and found many sites offering them for sale. The items shown range in length from cane to swagger stick. Evidently, from what I read, they were used to beat slaves that had done something to displease their owners. Given the cane’s construction, I find this explanation as plausible as it is repugnant. Here is a typical seller’s site: https://www.bargainjohn.com/product/walking-stick-4/.. On another (but in a strangely related) note,, I know from past experience that any search involving “canes” will turn up various sites featuring attractive people of both sexes from teen to middle age being subjected to similar punishment. I wonder what eBay thought of that. Sincerely, RobT

1st September 2024, 11:16 PM	#9
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 493	Continued Use Tim Simmons, Slavery in the US didn’t completely end until 12/1865. Even after that, the socio-cultural and economic conditions remained largely unchanged. Blacks were free in name only and were for the most part faced with two choices. They could either work for their former masters for room and board plus almost non-existent wages or starve. It must also be understood that, throughout the country but most especially in the south, black individuals had virtually no protection from whites. If a white person wished to kill a black person for any reason, he or she was free to do so without fear of the slightest penalty. (The sport of coon hunting didn’t always mean going after small, furry animals.) Given the above realities, I would wager that the plantation canes were carried and used well after the civil war. Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that they were still employed well into the 20th century, Sincerely, RobT

6th July 2024, 05:38 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Have been researching as you do when you have not easily identifiable artifacts. There may be the possibility that this might be a Bosun's starter or persuader which would make it earlier in manufacture than previously stated. The metal work is European in style. However with a steel tip I could think it far to aggressive for the purpose of stirring a fellow to work?

6th July 2024, 08:43 PM	#3
C4RL Member Join Date: Sep 2023 Posts: 50	A bit unlikely but how long is it? Yard stick? .

7th July 2024, 06:44 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	62cm or just over 24 inches . Too short for a yard stick.

7th July 2024, 06:33 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	It could be an Anglo Indian thing. Just that all the iron/steel rod core stuff I have handled has been African. However yes could be Indian come to think of it the metal work would fit that. A lot of Indian metal work had a Western feel even a lot of gothic revival imagery on metalwork trays and other artifact made for colonials and for export. The metal tip is heavy. I could be changing my mind on the origin. Although not a deadly arms length weapon in a close up situation not a lot of fun to be struck or poked in the face with.

1st September 2024, 10:14 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Rob that is pretty fantastic, thank you. I knew it was a nasty thing but it has interest. Great to actually pin it down. It could be quite old. British plantation slavery was ended 1830 something off the top of my head. Would it be in use after? .

2nd September 2024, 07:25 AM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	British empire slavery ender 1807 but it could have been brought to the UK from the USA.