It is not exactly a barong, but what is it?

TVV · 4th May 2005, 04:17 AM

Here is a dagger from the Philippines that generally resembles a barong, but is too small to be one. Is it a tourist item or a shorter but authentic version? Or does it actually have a name?
Thanks in advance for your comments,
Teodor

Ian · 4th May 2005, 04:35 AM

Teodor:

It is a barung, albeit small by usual standards. A couple of possibilities come to mind.

It could have been made for a boy. There are examples of downsized weapons for boys.

It could have been made as a "hideout" weapon. There are reports of small barung being used by the juramentados, those Moros who performed spirutal rituals, perhaps going into a trance-like state, and then walked into the midst of their enemies to kill as many as possible. The Malay word running amok describes the practice also.

Or it could have been made for foreigners as a memento of their visit to Moroland. Basically a display piece. You mention the thinness of the blade, so this may be the most likely explanation.

It does seem to have been made well in the style of an early 20th C. Moro barung.

Ian.

TVV · 4th May 2005, 05:05 AM

Thanks Ian,
The blade is thin indeed, only 2 mm wide at the spine. Here is another small dagger of approximately the same size, which I guess would be classified as a gunong with a thicker blade. I believe this second one is from the 1950s or later based on the fittings which to me seem as made of alluminum.
Just wanted to learn a bit more about those two items, as I do not know that much about PI weapons (which fascinate me nevertheless).
Thanks,
Teodor

tom hyle · 4th May 2005, 01:35 PM

The gunong likely had and lost a guard. I have a somewhat similar one; mid 20th, I should say; note that the serations seem to have been ground into a straight-forged blade, but are not of the most recent/decadent pointed form. Mine has a particularly solid blade for a gunong. I wouldn't say 50s for aluminum use in PI; 40s is probably a more realistic barrier(?), and production of daggers is always up in wartime.

Conogre · 4th May 2005, 05:36 PM

Here's a similar piece as your first, TVV, which I've often seen loosely grouped and called "baby barungs".
This one has MOP in the front of the scabbard, with a blade thinner than normal for a barung and yet still fully functional and with detail not usually expected in "keepsakes" or souvenier items.
Another possibility that has ocurred to me is for women as "personal protection items", being small, easily concealed and yet ornate enough to reflect caste as is often seen in male weapons.....this may be a stretch, but I've seen similar in european and Ottoman knives, so I keep the option open as at least a possibility.
Mike

TVV · 5th May 2005, 04:00 AM

Tom and Mike, you have made excellent points, thank you. I just wonder if the barong is suitable for a female dagger, as it is a slashing weapon and while the blade on mine is sharp, I guess the shape of a gunong would be more useful at that size. But I am not an expert by any means, and I like "baby barungs" regardless of what their original purpose was, as they are very well made.

tom hyle · 17th May 2005, 01:28 AM

Mine's only about 1mm at the spine, but on closer examination it has a sort of high shinogi affect, in that it is thicker some distance in from the spine, probably about 1.5mm, and a good 2mm at the base; still quite thin, and seeming more a knife than a dagger?

4th May 2005, 04:17 AM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,623	It is not exactly a barong, but what is it? Here is a dagger from the Philippines that generally resembles a barong, but is too small to be one. Is it a tourist item or a shorter but authentic version? Or does it actually have a name? Thanks in advance for your comments, Teodor Attached Images

4th May 2005, 05:36 PM	#5
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Here's a similar piece as your first, TVV, which I've often seen loosely grouped and called "baby barungs". This one has MOP in the front of the scabbard, with a blade thinner than normal for a barung and yet still fully functional and with detail not usually expected in "keepsakes" or souvenier items. Another possibility that has ocurred to me is for women as "personal protection items", being small, easily concealed and yet ornate enough to reflect caste as is often seen in male weapons.....this may be a stretch, but I've seen similar in european and Ottoman knives, so I keep the option open as at least a possibility. Mike Attached Images

4th May 2005, 04:35 AM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,200	Teodor: It is a barung, albeit small by usual standards. A couple of possibilities come to mind. It could have been made for a boy. There are examples of downsized weapons for boys. It could have been made as a "hideout" weapon. There are reports of small barung being used by the juramentados, those Moros who performed spirutal rituals, perhaps going into a trance-like state, and then walked into the midst of their enemies to kill as many as possible. The Malay word running amok describes the practice also. Or it could have been made for foreigners as a memento of their visit to Moroland. Basically a display piece. You mention the thinness of the blade, so this may be the most likely explanation. It does seem to have been made well in the style of an early 20th C. Moro barung. Ian.

4th May 2005, 05:05 AM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,623	Thanks Ian, The blade is thin indeed, only 2 mm wide at the spine. Here is another small dagger of approximately the same size, which I guess would be classified as a gunong with a thicker blade. I believe this second one is from the 1950s or later based on the fittings which to me seem as made of alluminum. Just wanted to learn a bit more about those two items, as I do not know that much about PI weapons (which fascinate me nevertheless). Thanks, Teodor

4th May 2005, 01:35 PM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	The gunong likely had and lost a guard. I have a somewhat similar one; mid 20th, I should say; note that the serations seem to have been ground into a straight-forged blade, but are not of the most recent/decadent pointed form. Mine has a particularly solid blade for a gunong. I wouldn't say 50s for aluminum use in PI; 40s is probably a more realistic barrier(?), and production of daggers is always up in wartime.

5th May 2005, 04:00 AM	#6
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,623	Tom and Mike, you have made excellent points, thank you. I just wonder if the barong is suitable for a female dagger, as it is a slashing weapon and while the blade on mine is sharp, I guess the shape of a gunong would be more useful at that size. But I am not an expert by any means, and I like "baby barungs" regardless of what their original purpose was, as they are very well made.

17th May 2005, 01:28 AM	#7
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Mine's only about 1mm at the spine, but on closer examination it has a sort of high shinogi affect, in that it is thicker some distance in from the spine, probably about 1.5mm, and a good 2mm at the base; still quite thin, and seeming more a knife than a dagger?