Moro Twistcores

Bill M · 17th February 2007, 10:48 PM

Where did the moro twisted blade pattern originate?

VVV · 17th February 2007, 11:29 PM

Bill,

Please share some close ups of the twistcore pattern also.
Don't you suspect that it's influenced by the Indonesian pamor?

Michael

wilked aka Khun Deng · 18th February 2007, 08:59 AM

Bill, I'd guess three of those from Sulu and two from central Mindanao - so that's no help, but it does show that it wasn't characteristic of one particular locale. The question would be from those of you that are lucky enough to have several of these (and Bill it looks like you have more than your share

) can we determine by dating if it spread North of South. Unfortunately Jolo and Cotabato were both major trading ports during the time most these were probably manufactured.

Pukka Bundook · 18th February 2007, 04:19 PM

Don't have a thing to add, except to say these are works of art!!

Rick · 18th February 2007, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Bill,

Please share some close ups of the twistcore pattern also.
Don't you suspect that it's influenced by the Indonesian pamor?

Michael

Yes, I'd guess that pamor as a concept spread from Indonesia along with a slow diaspora of Madurese/Javanese smiths and their descendants to the far corners of the area .

Bill M · 12th January 2010, 12:08 PM

Bump for more ideas as to origin of twistcores.

Lee · 13th January 2010, 03:04 AM

What has constantly surprised me is just how widespread over time and many cultures the use of twist-core pattern welding actually is. At one time I believed that there must be some sort of common thread of cascading influence, but now I believe that it 'naturally' arises out of the material and how it must be worked at a small forge. That is, it arose from the use of a 'piled' structure of multiple rods to build a blade - either for differential properties (soft core, hard edge) or just to get a large enough billet - when, at some point, a rod with contrasting components or prominent grain would get twisted and patterns were seen at final polish and ultimately manipulated to arrive at the same end. So, the very same techniques and patterns may be seen at the core of a Celtic (less twisting) or Migration period (zenith of style) or Viking Age sword in Europe as would later show up in Chinese swords and Ottoman arms and Moro arms.

Very nice examples, by the way; thank you for sharing them. So, for what it is worth, I believe the Moro smiths 'discovered' this all on their own as a natural consequence of building blades from smaller components. Some pictures of the European manifestations of the technique and more details are included in The Serpent in the Sword.

Bill M · 13th January 2010, 12:26 PM

Thank you, Lee, for the well thought out and very pertinent reply.

17th February 2007, 10:48 PM	#1
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Moro Twistcores Where did the moro twisted blade pattern originate? Attached Images Last edited by Bill Marsh; 17th February 2007 at 11:33 PM.

13th January 2010, 03:04 AM	#7
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 914	A 'Natural' Outgrowth of Piled Structures What has constantly surprised me is just how widespread over time and many cultures the use of twist-core pattern welding actually is. At one time I believed that there must be some sort of common thread of cascading influence, but now I believe that it 'naturally' arises out of the material and how it must be worked at a small forge. That is, it arose from the use of a 'piled' structure of multiple rods to build a blade - either for differential properties (soft core, hard edge) or just to get a large enough billet - when, at some point, a rod with contrasting components or prominent grain would get twisted and patterns were seen at final polish and ultimately manipulated to arrive at the same end. So, the very same techniques and patterns may be seen at the core of a Celtic (less twisting) or Migration period (zenith of style) or Viking Age sword in Europe as would later show up in Chinese swords and Ottoman arms and Moro arms. Very nice examples, by the way; thank you for sharing them. So, for what it is worth, I believe the Moro smiths 'discovered' this all on their own as a natural consequence of building blades from smaller components. Some pictures of the European manifestations of the technique and more details are included in The Serpent in the Sword.

17th February 2007, 11:29 PM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Bill, Please share some close ups of the twistcore pattern also. Don't you suspect that it's influenced by the Indonesian pamor? Michael

18th February 2007, 08:59 AM	#3
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Bill, I'd guess three of those from Sulu and two from central Mindanao - so that's no help, but it does show that it wasn't characteristic of one particular locale. The question would be from those of you that are lucky enough to have several of these (and Bill it looks like you have more than your share ) can we determine by dating if it spread North of South. Unfortunately Jolo and Cotabato were both major trading ports during the time most these were probably manufactured.

18th February 2007, 04:19 PM	#4
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Don't have a thing to add, except to say these are works of art!!

12th January 2010, 12:08 PM	#6
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Bump for more ideas as to origin of twistcores.

13th January 2010, 12:26 PM	#8
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Thank you, Lee, for the well thought out and very pertinent reply.