Unusual Gunong To Share

Robert · 16th January 2015, 11:54 PM

This unusual gunong is one of the latest additions to my collection. The engraved blade is 7 inches in length and 1/4 inch thick. The brass guard and ferule are cast in one piece. It has one of the older style hilt forms instead of the later more bulbous type and is made from a dark and very hard wood. It was split in two places when it arrived and these photos are after the repairs had been made. It has a hand rubbed oil finish with no lacquer or varnish of any kind. The ferule had been damaged and had a split in it that I had close and solder hence the polish. I will darken it later when I etch the blade. Unfortunately there was no scabbard with this piece to help to identify where it is from. The Naga/Dragon engraving on the blade is not of the simpilier line form but is of a more sculpted form. Any thoughts or information on this piece would be greatly appreciated.

Best,
Robert

Battara · 17th January 2015, 03:21 AM

Hi Robert. Never seen this type of engraving (without inlay) on a gunning before. Based on the type and style of engraving, I would say perhaps Maguindanao. Some large Maguindanao kris have this same type of engraving down both sides of the kris, sometimes engraved, sometimes with metal inlay.

Robert · 17th January 2015, 07:06 AM

Hello Jose, The first time I saw this dagger I was thinking the same thing about it once having inlay, but after it arrived I could find no evidence that it ever did. The engraving has very sharp edges and shows no signs of ever being peened to hold inlay in place. I wish that I could take a better photo that would show the chisel marks that are in the undercut areas that are used to highlight the design itself. Most of the main line design has a raised edge on one side of the groove only which would make it very hard to keep any inlaid material in place. What would be your opinion on the age of this piece be? Going by the hilt style alone I would guess it to be somewhere between 1910 and 1930, but that is only a guess as it could be later and the hilt style could have just been copied from an earlier example.

Best,
Robert

Sajen · 17th January 2015, 11:33 AM

Hello Robert,

what a beautiful transforming. Like said before, I am also never have seen this way of engraving before by a gunong blade. The handle style is an early one, I would guess also by the ferrule style that this gunong is from 1900-1920. May I ask you how you have closed the splits in the wooden handle?

Regards,
Detlef

Spunjer · 17th January 2015, 02:55 PM

Hello Robert
nice catch! your gunong could be older; say late 1800's? here's a gunong that was made prior to 1900. the pommel appears to be made out of banati wood. really digging that!

Spunjer · 17th January 2015, 03:04 PM

as far as provenance, IMHO i think it's of Maranao origin. the okir is reminiscent of a Maranao panolong, or extension beams, on their homes. here's an example:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=torogan (specifically, post 18 and 19)

Spunjer · 17th January 2015, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

The first time I saw this dagger I was thinking the same thing about it once having inlay, but after it arrived I could find no evidence that it ever did. The engraving has very sharp edges and shows no signs of ever being peened to hold inlay in place. I wish that I could take a better photo that would show the chisel marks that are in the undercut areas that are used to highlight the design itself. Most of the main line design has a raised edge on one side of the groove only which would make it very hard to keep any inlaid material in place.

Best,
Robert

I'm with you that this didn't have any prior inlay. here's a picture of a similar style on a spearhead. as a matter of fact, this particular piece was brought back by Mr. Hayes, and was attributed to the Maranaos. hope this helps...

Battara · 17th January 2015, 08:47 PM

I misspoke earlier - Maranao and not Maguindanao. Thanks for the correction Ron.

I would also agree with the age mentioned. Many of these seem to be from Mindanao, usually Maranao or Maguindanao.

Spunjer · 17th January 2015, 08:54 PM

no prob, jose.
can't wait til next month and get together with the gang! i say we go back to the Thai place and see Rick sweat! that there is worth it, lol!!!

Robert · 17th January 2015, 09:46 PM

Quote:

May I ask you how you have closed the splits in the wooden handle?

Hello Detlef, Normally after warming the blade and removing it from the hilt and guard assembly I soak the wood for a few hours in distilled water to help soften and remove any built up dirt and debris and help prepare it for gluing. I then use a brush to remove any stubborn built-up contaminates. On this piece when I removed the hilt and guard assembly the hilt separated into two pieces like the gunong listed in this previous thread. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=gunong It also made it easier to clean the two surfaces for bonding as well as removing any old resin from the tang socket. After hand fitting the two pieces a couple of times to make sure both halves fit back together with no gaps I apply the glue. I use Elmer's Carpenter's Glue now as I cannot find the marine glue that I previously used. I apply a thin coating to both surfaces, align both pieces and press them together. Holding them in this position I then use 1/4 inch wide rubber bands and starting in the center wind them around the piece as tightly as I can get them cleaning any excess glue from the piece as I go. This is done for the entire length of the area being bonded. I then place a second layer of the bands over the first to make for a very strong and even pressure along the glue seams. I also use dampened cotton swabs to remove any excess glue that has been squeezed into the tang socket during the gluing process. The piece is then allowed to dry for a minimum of 72 hours before removing the bands. If you have been very careful the glue seam is almost invisible when when dried. After any glue that might have been missed during clamping I burnish the entire surface and hand rub it with tung oil until I get the desired finish. I then hand polish it using Ren Wax applied to a piece of sheepskin. I hope that this answers your question.

Best,
Robert

Robert · 17th January 2015, 10:03 PM

Hello Ron, and thank you for all the great information and links to the other items with this style of engraving. The kris with the dragon/naga engraved down the entire length of the blade is magnificent!! I just wish my health and finances would allow me to attend Timonium this year as I would very much like to meet at least some of the people who have been of such great help and assistance to me over the years. Like everything else, I guess that there is always next year. Thanks again for all the information.

Best,
Robert

Sajen · 17th January 2015, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

I hope that this answers your question.

Yes, it does!

Thank you very much.

You have done a great restore job. Congratulations for this and also for this very nice gunong.

Regards,
Detlef

RSWORD · 18th January 2015, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

no prob, jose.
can't wait til next month and get together with the gang! i say we go back to the Thai place and see Rick sweat! that there is worth it, lol!!!

LOL! As I recall, I was the only Thai hot all the way guy that night while you and Jose were begging for extra mild!

One thing is for sure! We get some good food on that trip!

Ferguson · 18th January 2015, 02:10 AM

Thanks for sharing Robert. That's an interesting gunong!
Steve

Spunjer · 18th January 2015, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

LOL! As I recall, I was the only Thai hot all the way guy that night while you and Jose were begging for extra mild!

One thing is for sure! We get some good food on that trip!

amen to that!

you're welcome, robert.
and you're more than welcome to join us in Kentucky at the end of February. dunno if that's closer to you?

Battara · 18th January 2015, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

no prob, jose.
can't wait til next month and get together with the gang! i say we go back to the Thai place and see Rick sweat! that there is worth it, lol!!!

That restaurant is gone.

Alas no more "Rick the Red."

Battara · 18th January 2015, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

LOL! As I recall, I was the only Thai hot all the way guy that night while you and Jose were begging for extra mild!

One thing is for sure! We get some good food on that trip!

Rick I'm part Tagalog, Irish, and Cherokee: we don't do VOLCANIC HOT!

Battara · 18th January 2015, 09:37 PM

And yes Robert, you are by all means welcome (and perhaps see my humble little collection and tiny workshop!

)

Robert · 19th January 2015, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Yes, it does! Thank you very much. You have done a great restore job. Congratulations for this and also for this very nice gunong.

You are most welcome Detlef. It makes me very happy to be able to pass on any any of the little tricks that I have learned over the years.

Quote:

Thanks for sharing Robert. That's an interesting gunong!

Thank you Tito Gunong, I am glad you like it.

Quote:

And yes Robert, you are by all means welcome (and perhaps see my humble little collection and tiny workshop! )
Yesterday 02:35 PM

I would really like to be able to be there and would love to see your workshop and your and wonderful collection. I will just have to wait and see how things work out.

Best,
Robert

16th January 2015, 11:54 PM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Unusual Gunong To Share This unusual gunong is one of the latest additions to my collection. The engraved blade is 7 inches in length and 1/4 inch thick. The brass guard and ferule are cast in one piece. It has one of the older style hilt forms instead of the later more bulbous type and is made from a dark and very hard wood. It was split in two places when it arrived and these photos are after the repairs had been made. It has a hand rubbed oil finish with no lacquer or varnish of any kind. The ferule had been damaged and had a split in it that I had close and solder hence the polish. I will darken it later when I etch the blade. Unfortunately there was no scabbard with this piece to help to identify where it is from. The Naga/Dragon engraving on the blade is not of the simpilier line form but is of a more sculpted form. Any thoughts or information on this piece would be greatly appreciated. Best, Robert Attached Images

17th January 2015, 02:55 PM	#5
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Hello Robert nice catch! your gunong could be older; say late 1800's? here's a gunong that was made prior to 1900. the pommel appears to be made out of banati wood. really digging that! Attached Images

17th January 2015, 03:21 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	Hi Robert. Never seen this type of engraving (without inlay) on a gunning before. Based on the type and style of engraving, I would say perhaps Maguindanao. Some large Maguindanao kris have this same type of engraving down both sides of the kris, sometimes engraved, sometimes with metal inlay.

17th January 2015, 07:06 AM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Jose, The first time I saw this dagger I was thinking the same thing about it once having inlay, but after it arrived I could find no evidence that it ever did. The engraving has very sharp edges and shows no signs of ever being peened to hold inlay in place. I wish that I could take a better photo that would show the chisel marks that are in the undercut areas that are used to highlight the design itself. Most of the main line design has a raised edge on one side of the groove only which would make it very hard to keep any inlaid material in place. What would be your opinion on the age of this piece be? Going by the hilt style alone I would guess it to be somewhere between 1910 and 1930, but that is only a guess as it could be later and the hilt style could have just been copied from an earlier example. Best, Robert

17th January 2015, 11:33 AM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,794	Hello Robert, what a beautiful transforming. Like said before, I am also never have seen this way of engraving before by a gunong blade. The handle style is an early one, I would guess also by the ferrule style that this gunong is from 1900-1920. May I ask you how you have closed the splits in the wooden handle? Regards, Detlef

17th January 2015, 03:04 PM	#6
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	as far as provenance, IMHO i think it's of Maranao origin. the okir is reminiscent of a Maranao panolong, or extension beams, on their homes. here's an example: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=torogan (specifically, post 18 and 19)

17th January 2015, 08:47 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	I misspoke earlier - Maranao and not Maguindanao. Thanks for the correction Ron. I would also agree with the age mentioned. Many of these seem to be from Mindanao, usually Maranao or Maguindanao.

17th January 2015, 08:54 PM	#9
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	no prob, jose. can't wait til next month and get together with the gang! i say we go back to the Thai place and see Rick sweat! that there is worth it, lol!!!

17th January 2015, 10:03 PM	#11
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Ron, and thank you for all the great information and links to the other items with this style of engraving. The kris with the dragon/naga engraved down the entire length of the blade is magnificent!! I just wish my health and finances would allow me to attend Timonium this year as I would very much like to meet at least some of the people who have been of such great help and assistance to me over the years. Like everything else, I guess that there is always next year. Thanks again for all the information. Best, Robert

18th January 2015, 02:10 AM	#14
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Thanks for sharing Robert. That's an interesting gunong! Steve

18th January 2015, 09:37 PM	#18
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	And yes Robert, you are by all means welcome (and perhaps see my humble little collection and tiny workshop! )