ISLAMIC ARMS AT BRITISH MUSEUM

ALEX · 29th April 2009, 10:32 PM

The British Museum has a small, but very nice permanent exhibit of Islamic Arms. Here are some pictures of fantastic weapons. Hope you'll enjoy the pictures.

ALEX · 29th April 2009, 10:36 PM

.... a few more pictures....

RSWORD · 29th April 2009, 11:21 PM

Beautiful pieces! Thanks for sharing!

rand · 30th April 2009, 12:47 AM

Wow, gotta love the Islamic arms in that museum!! Love how the inly on the kilij blade was still in mint condition and raised well above the surface. The cross guard seems like it may be Persian and the hilt definately Turkish.

That 17th-18th Persian/Indian century mace was a killer piece too!!

Thanks for the pics.....

rand

ariel · 30th April 2009, 12:50 AM

Raised inscription indicates Turkish tradition. Persian were flat.

kahnjar1 · 30th April 2009, 05:04 AM

Not sure if your pics relate to the Victoria & Albert Museum, but if they do, there is a book by Anthony North about these, and it contains many very nice pics. Title is ISLAMIC ARMS by Anthony North. Printed by H.M Stationery Office ISBN 0 11 290384. Not sure if it is still available but write Victoria & Albert Museum, South Kensington, London SW7 2RL, UK.
Well worth it for the contents.
Regards Stuart

Tatyana Dianova · 30th April 2009, 08:41 AM

Alex thanks for posting this stunning pieces! They definitely made my day

Shimmerxxx · 29th December 2012, 12:48 PM

Thanks so much for posting these photos, I've been to the British museum recently but managed to miss this section!

I headed back there a couple of days back and took a full set of photos for myself. Here are the pieces which aren't covered above.

I took photos of all the information plaques, so if anyone would like more details, please ask.

For photos from the Indian Arms section please click here

Montino Bourbon · 29th December 2012, 08:44 PM

I notice that the kard in the pic with the four daggers has a blade that is hollow ground, like the one that I showed a week ago. It's only the third one that I have seen like that, and reaffirms my belief that mine is an exceptionally fine blade.

eric45 · 2nd January 2013, 06:32 AM

Very nice.

T. Koch · 3rd January 2013, 06:23 AM

Hi Montino!

Do you mean the kard on the far left, the one with the quartz handle? For me the hollow grind isn't really apparent on this one, as it was on the one you showed. Bear in mind though, that I have minimal experience with these kind of knives, so I probably don't know what to look for.

I do notice however, that the kard second from the right - the one with a jade ram's head hilt - seems to be made from pattern welded/folded steel and not the typical fine crucible watering/wootz, like I believe Indo-Persian kards often display. Is a folded pattern uncommon in Mughal daggers or have I just not seen enough of them?

Beautiful and to die for, all of 'em - that's for sure! *droolysmiley*

Take care, - Thor

Sylektis · 25th November 2013, 08:02 PM

Some new photos

Battara · 26th November 2013, 07:28 PM

What kills me is the script on the kilij - it's raised , not inlaid!

rand · 26th November 2013, 10:53 PM

On the royal yataghans not only is the gold inlay raised above the surface of the blade. The decoration on the bolsa is three dimensional, the figures curve in on the back side. And all the gold work on the scabbard is solid gold. I have the total weight somewhere, will post it if found.

Posted in wrong place and could not remove.

rand

Robert · 1st December 2013, 02:42 AM

Wonderful pictures, especially seeing that they were photographed through the glass of the display cases. Thank you for sharing.

Best,
Robert

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 1st December 2013, 09:49 AM

Salaams All, This is such an important part of Forum activity and gives bench mark references for our study. Not everyone can get to these venues and having them to hand is so useful. Anyone notice the missing "bullet in chamber pointer" on the Martini Henry?

Great Thread.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

AhmedH · 1st December 2013, 10:55 AM

Wonderful pics indeed! Thank you for posting this.

Sajen · 1st December 2013, 01:12 PM

Thank you both for sharing this great pictures!

Richard G · 2nd December 2013, 02:02 PM

Ibrahim,
Many old breechloaders in the UK were "de-activated" in the 1950's ans 60's so that they could be owned without a license and openly displayed (rather than being locked up in a gun cabinet). This meant making them irretrievably unfirable and whilst some "de-activators" were skilled enough to remove the firing pin and it's seating so that the gun would still cock etc. others were a lot cruder and took out most of the "innards" and put a hacksaw through the breech. It is possible that is what happened here.
Since 1968 it is possible to own and trade gun's with "obsolete" calibres and chambering. These are listed, thus a .577\.45 Martini is "obsolete" but a .303 still needs a license.
Regards
Richard

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 3rd December 2013, 12:19 PM

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 3rd December 2013, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard G

Ibrahim,
Many old breechloaders in the UK were "de-activated" in the 1950's ans 60's so that they could be owned without a license and openly displayed (rather than being locked up in a gun cabinet). This meant making them irretrievably unfirable and whilst some "de-activators" were skilled enough to remove the firing pin and it's seating so that the gun would still cock etc. others were a lot cruder and took out most of the "innards" and put a hacksaw through the breech. It is possible that is what happened here.
Since 1968 it is possible to own and trade gun's with "obsolete" calibres and chambering. These are listed, thus a .577\.45 Martini is "obsolete" but a .303 still needs a license.
Regards
Richard

Salaams Richard ~ Indeed and the other mod was to file the face of the breech at 45 degrees .. insane! That and milling the barrel by sawing it at the breech doomed the weapon to scrap ...Looking at the weapon it appears not to have been tampered with as the Omani work, silver and modified old woodwork have not been touched (barrel wise). I see no reason, however, to see an antique weapon with no "bullet up the spout indicator"... Maybe it just fell out...? Some are a bit loose and it happens... I have half a dozen spares maybe someone can ask and I will send them one...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

archer burak · 10th December 2013, 09:12 PM

Thats haven , thaks for sharing

29th April 2009, 10:32 PM	#1
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	ISLAMIC ARMS AT BRITISH MUSEUM The British Museum has a small, but very nice permanent exhibit of Islamic Arms. Here are some pictures of fantastic weapons. Hope you'll enjoy the pictures. Attached Images Last edited by ALEX; 30th April 2009 at 12:15 AM.

29th April 2009, 10:36 PM	#2
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	.... a few more pictures.... Attached Images

30th April 2009, 12:47 AM	#4
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	British Museum Wow, gotta love the Islamic arms in that museum!! Love how the inly on the kilij blade was still in mint condition and raised well above the surface. The cross guard seems like it may be Persian and the hilt definately Turkish. That 17th-18th Persian/Indian century mace was a killer piece too!! Thanks for the pics..... rand

29th December 2012, 12:48 PM	#8
Shimmerxxx Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Wickford, UK Posts: 54	Thanks so much for posting these photos, I've been to the British museum recently but managed to miss this section! I headed back there a couple of days back and took a full set of photos for myself. Here are the pieces which aren't covered above. I took photos of all the information plaques, so if anyone would like more details, please ask. For photos from the Indian Arms section please click here Attached Images

25th November 2013, 08:02 PM	#12
Sylektis Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 136	Some new photos Attached Images

29th April 2009, 11:21 PM	#3
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,084	Beautiful pieces! Thanks for sharing!

30th April 2009, 12:50 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Raised inscription indicates Turkish tradition. Persian were flat.

30th April 2009, 05:04 AM	#6
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,739	Not sure if your pics relate to the Victoria & Albert Museum, but if they do, there is a book by Anthony North about these, and it contains many very nice pics. Title is ISLAMIC ARMS by Anthony North. Printed by H.M Stationery Office ISBN 0 11 290384. Not sure if it is still available but write Victoria & Albert Museum, South Kensington, London SW7 2RL, UK. Well worth it for the contents. Regards Stuart

30th April 2009, 08:41 AM	#7
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 695	Alex thanks for posting this stunning pieces! They definitely made my day

29th December 2012, 08:44 PM	#9
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	I notice that the kard in the pic with the four daggers has a blade that is hollow ground, like the one that I showed a week ago. It's only the third one that I have seen like that, and reaffirms my belief that mine is an exceptionally fine blade.

2nd January 2013, 06:32 AM	#10
eric45 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: usa Posts: 32	Very nice.

3rd January 2013, 06:23 AM	#11
T. Koch Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Mother North Posts: 189	Hi Montino! Do you mean the kard on the far left, the one with the quartz handle? For me the hollow grind isn't really apparent on this one, as it was on the one you showed. Bear in mind though, that I have minimal experience with these kind of knives, so I probably don't know what to look for. I do notice however, that the kard second from the right - the one with a jade ram's head hilt - seems to be made from pattern welded/folded steel and not the typical fine crucible watering/wootz, like I believe Indo-Persian kards often display. Is a folded pattern uncommon in Mughal daggers or have I just not seen enough of them? Beautiful and to die for, all of 'em - that's for sure! droolysmiley Take care, - Thor

26th November 2013, 07:28 PM	#13
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	What kills me is the script on the kilij - it's raised , not inlaid!

26th November 2013, 10:53 PM	#14
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 538	Decoration on yataghan. On the royal yataghans not only is the gold inlay raised above the surface of the blade. The decoration on the bolsa is three dimensional, the figures curve in on the back side. And all the gold work on the scabbard is solid gold. I have the total weight somewhere, will post it if found. Posted in wrong place and could not remove. rand

1st December 2013, 02:42 AM	#15
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Wonderful pictures, especially seeing that they were photographed through the glass of the display cases. Thank you for sharing. Best, Robert

1st December 2013, 09:49 AM	#16
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams All, This is such an important part of Forum activity and gives bench mark references for our study. Not everyone can get to these venues and having them to hand is so useful. Anyone notice the missing "bullet in chamber pointer" on the Martini Henry? Great Thread. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

1st December 2013, 10:55 AM	#17
AhmedH Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Cairo, Egypt. Posts: 142	Wonderful pics indeed! Thank you for posting this.

1st December 2013, 01:12 PM	#18
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Thank you both for sharing this great pictures!

2nd December 2013, 02:02 PM	#19
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 406	Ibrahim, Many old breechloaders in the UK were "de-activated" in the 1950's ans 60's so that they could be owned without a license and openly displayed (rather than being locked up in a gun cabinet). This meant making them irretrievably unfirable and whilst some "de-activators" were skilled enough to remove the firing pin and it's seating so that the gun would still cock etc. others were a lot cruder and took out most of the "innards" and put a hacksaw through the breech. It is possible that is what happened here. Since 1968 it is possible to own and trade gun's with "obsolete" calibres and chambering. These are listed, thus a .577\.45 Martini is "obsolete" but a .303 still needs a license. Regards Richard

3rd December 2013, 12:19 PM	#20
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Front Rank ! Load !!!!

10th December 2013, 09:12 PM	#22
archer burak Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: İstanbul Posts: 22	Thats haven , thaks for sharing