Some kind of dha?

[Flavio]

This is just ended any comment is welcome thank you

http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...7588%26fvi%3D1

[RhysMichael]

I think it is a dha. Maybe Laotian due to the handle -blade ratio. I am sure someone who knows better will answer soon

[Flavio]

Thank you Michael

[PUFF]

I think it 's SEA blade. There 's no mark, encasing or wrapping for further ID but the hilt lenght would suggest Lao origin. From the blade style and hilt lenght, another possibility could be Siamese calvary sword (18-19th cent.).

[Andrew]

I would, also, include this in the group of swords we generally refer to as "dha".

The photos aren't great, but the handle/blade ratio and materials suggest a Laos origin to me as well.

PUFF, the Siamese calvary weapons you mentioned are definitely similar, but the examples I've seen have had more substantial mountings. Were more pedestrian examples common?

[Ian]

Agree with what has been said already. N. Thailand or Lao dha with long handle. I think PUFF has the correct answer in that it is probably a Siamese cavalry sword.

The overall length of approximately 36 inches would fit with the Siamese cavalry sword idea.

Ian.

[Flavio]

Puff, Andrew, Ian, thank you very much! Could be so old (18th - 19th century)!?! Wow I'll post better pictures as soon as it will arrive. Thanks again. Just a question: this could be an original Siamese calvary sword, i mean that also the handle is original, or a Siamese calvary BLADE, remounted wih this long handle (sorry for my ignorance )? thanks

[kronckew]

glad you like it, was watching that one for a week, but it went from almost nothing to your price in the last minute & i did not have time to up my sniper softwares bid more - the joys of ebay, win some, lose more....

anyhow glad one of us got it, so post lotsa pictures when it arrives, i was thinking cavalry version myself when i spotted it....

[Flavio]

Sure Kronckew, with pleasure

[Ian]

The long handle is typical of Siamese cavalry swords. The hilt is probably original to the blade. I would guess late 19th C but hard to say from pictures.

Ian.

Originally Posted by Flavio

Puff, Andrew, Ian, thank you very much! Could be so old (18th - 19th century)!?! Wow I'll post better pictures as soon as it will arrive. Thanks again. Just a question: this could be an original Siamese calvary sword, i mean that also the handle is original, or a Siamese calvary BLADE, remounted wih this long handle (sorry for my ignorance )? thanks

[Flavio]

Thank you very much Ian, i hope that will arrive soon

[Flavio]

Ok, it's arrived!!! The first three pictures show as the dha is arrived, not so bad conditions, apart for the scabbard that is completely open. I have cleaned the blade and lightly etched (my first time!!!) with vinegar, quite hot water and a drop of shampo. The blade shows a very nice lamination The cap on the bottom of the handle is copper, maybe a later restoration. Now i'm trying to restor the scabbard: i'm glue the two pieces together and than i will try to redone the rattan wire (at least someone of the many that in the past held togeteher the scabbard). I'll post some pictures when the work is ended. Comments are welcome. Thank you

[RhysMichael]

A nice differential hardening line on the blade

[Valjhun]

Am I ill or I'm seeing hammon on that dha?

Flavio: Siccome non ho mai trattato alcun lama, vorrei chiederti come hai fatto. Cos'e vinegar? aceto???? ciao e grazie!

[Mark]

Flavio,

Very nice blade. It is hard to say whether the hard edge is differential tempering or an inserted edge (both are seen). Differential tempering is most commonly done by heating just the edge and the quenching, which results in this kind of uneven temper. I think that the very different harnesses (seem from the much lighter edge area) might be from lamination. Is there any trace at all of a welding seam along the line where the two meet?

About the scabbard: I suggest not gluing it, as this is the traditional way scabbards (faak) are made in Thailand. The halves are held together by bands, rather than by gluing. Often braided rattan is used, but you may be able to find an alternative (braided wire, for example).

Valjhun: Yep, "vineger" = aceto.

[Flavio]

Hello Guys, thank you very much . Mark, there is no traces of welding along the line or at least i can't see them. Yes, i will try to put togheter the two halves with some kind of wire: for me it's difficult to find here in Italy rattan, but i will try with a vegetal fiber that here we call it CANAPA and maybe in english is hemp, i think .

Valjhun i have sent you a PM

[Tim Simmons]

Flavio, these people might be able to tell you who is near to you to do restoration. They put me in touch with a lady who is repairing the scabbard of a talibon for me, she is only 60km south of my home. BasketMakers.com

[Flavio]

Hello Tim, thank you ! Guys, any idea on the socket on the point of scabbard? on the throat of scabbard there are two wooden nails per side. Any idea? could be for a brass mounting? thanks

[PUFF]

Braid hemp 's fine. Even metal (copper) bands will do.

The sockets at scabbard 's tip might be the place for another metal fitting, similar to one at the butt-cap (pommel?).

[Mark]

My guess is that the socket is actually due to a bit of wood coming off between the very tip of the scabbard,and a hole made for a peg to hold the two halves together. It is typical for the scabbard halves to be held together also with a peg through the end. Usually there is more wood at the tip of the scabbard so the hole can be set back, but in your case the hole for the peg seems to have been quite near the tip, allowing the peg hole to break completely out and make a notch.

[Flavio]

Thank you guys, i will post some pictures of scabbard as soon as the work is finished

[PUFF]

Thanks for detailed pic. I just discussed with K. Bancha. The blade style was used during early(late C18th)-mid(late C19th) Rattanakosin. With this kind of spine, this one 's likely to be mid-Rattanakosin (as Ian mentioned, late C19th). The origin 's likely to be central Thailand because he found a similar example from NaKornSawan province. And the hamon 's likely to be differential harden rather than Sanmai

[Flavio]

Thank you very much Puff

[kronckew]

hi flavio,

one of my dha's came with a scabbard in much the same shape as yours, made some copper bands for it from sheet copper, and a copper chape for the scabbard end which replaces the one much like it that was very damaged., added some braided string bands later. i'll probably replace those with turk's head knots at some point, now that i learned how to tie them (google 'turk's head' - they're the same knots scouts use to make their neckerchief slides, and can be used for other decorative purposes (mats, monkey's fist rope ends, etc))
much of the wood was missing near the tip which i hand carved replacement bits for & carefully inlaid & glued them in place (before banding, of course) from your photo i think there may have been a wooden pin to hold the halves together near the scabbard tip which was also present on mine. i replaced it with a piece whittled from a bamboo chopstick. this was my first 'restoration' and the scabbard was in so bad a condition on receipt, i did not feel too bad about not being overly 'authentic' in restoring it. anyhow, picture follows, (the kukhri in the picture is 21" LOA.....the dha in it's scabbard is 34" LOA, 10" grip, 23" blade)

edited:
found my 'before' pictures for this naga dha, the scabbard was complete tho in 2 halves, no bands tho, rotten baldric was only thing holding it all together, re-varnished it & added new turk's head bands - dha grip has individually braided rattan rings covering it which luckily were complete & in good shape so did not require any rework, so the sword was basically just cleaned & oiled. it had a bamboo pin at the scabbard tip also.
before:

after:

[Ian]

Hi Kronckew:

Nice looking work and close enough to the original. BTW, I think the bottom example is probably Thai -- 19th C. The tip is a little unusual but of a style for blades that serve as a utility tool and weapon. [PUFF could probably give you the province from which this one comes.] I have a similar sword, probably early 19th C., which is presently on display at the Macau Museum of Art. Its scabbard is black lacquered wood with old rattan strips and baldric.

Yours is a handsome example with what sounds like a well preserved rattan wrapped hilt. Some plaited rattan strips would look super on that scabbard.

Ian.


Here are pictures of mine off Mark's Dha Research Index

[PUFF]

Ian, not all case that we can ID province of which a blade come. Most of the case, we can ID only country or region. In the case of a blade with a specific mark or looks very much similar to an example from a known province, then we can ID into narrower place.

Your Hua-Mon blade looks very unique. With such a brass peg at the tip, detailed photo for spine base and little metal plate guard, we might be able to get a specific ID from experts in my region.

[Ian]

That particular sword won't be back in my hands until late August, after the Macau exhibition finishes. The blade appears to be older than many dahb in my collection. There is no brass plate at the end of the handle adjacent to the blade. Not sure it ever had one. The spine is peaked and, from memory, had a double taper.

Ian.

[PUFF]

I noticed a small yellowish circular dot at about 1" from blade tip. Do you remember of which the little dot made? Is the dot insert pin or just gold paint?

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by Ian

... BTW, I think the bottom example is probably Thai -- 19th C. The tip is a little unusual but of a style for blades that serve as a utility tool and weapon. [PUFF could probably give you the province from which this one comes.] I have a similar sword, probably early 19th C., which is presently on display at the Macau Museum of Art. Its scabbard is black lacquered wood with old rattan strips and baldric....

hi ian,

don't really want to hijack fabio's thread, was just showing him a couple of scabbard repair suggestions.

that dha of mine has a copper circular plate at the pommel end of the grip held on by three nails. the plate is lipped back over the grip & keeps the rings from sliding off (along with all the other gunk on the grip) the blade end has a tapering copper bolster, covered by the rings, and a flat circular copper disk with a square hole for the tang covering the blade/grip junction, held on with 4 nails. the nails are all apparently steel with cross-hatched flat heads. the tang is about 4 inches into the grip (checked with magnet) 3/8" thick at the grip. the flat blade spine is distally tapered sharply from the grip over the 1st third of the blade, then rounded/chamfered and tapering less sharply to the razor sharp tip. spine is initially flat & incised with a series of diagonal lines, in 4 groups of 6,2,7, and 4 lines. the 4th line of the 1st group and the third group are broad and inset with copper. the tip is sharp all the way from the edge to the spine. no brass/copper inserted dot. the blade has no pitting or active rust but has a well developed mottled patina. all copper has a very dark almost olive patina. was told it was probably a 'naga' type from northern thailand, but may have katchin ancestry as well, as they are a bit overlapped in the region based on what was popular with the smiths at the time & who was fighting who....

[Flavio]

Hello kronckew, thank you for the pics, this weekend i have to work at the scabbard!!!!