Interesting Composite Dagger With Ethnographic Roots...Need Translation Help!

CharlesS · 4th October 2012, 06:13 PM

This is a very interesting old composite dagger whose origin I would like to identify. The dagger is massive and heavy. It measures 15in. overall, with a heavy 9in. blade from an Arab jambiya. The hilt is stag horn with an inscription at the pommel's end. The scabbard is polished horn with silver alloy fittings.

The blade's origin speaks for itself. The scabbard style looks very Indonesian to me.

I am hoping someone can translate both inscriptions. I think the key to its origin is in the bottom inscription.

Thanks in advance for any help!!!

A.alnakkas · 4th October 2012, 07:17 PM

Hey Charles,

I seen this one before somewhere... Well its a nice item but dont think the blade is Arabic maybe Indonesian made in the style of Arabian jambiya/khanjar blade. Probably the scabbard and blade are from the same time but the hilt is the only replacement.

CharlesS · 4th October 2012, 07:36 PM

The Indonesians did make jambiyas in the Arabic style, normally with different fittings, and scabbards, but this compares quite favorably with my other Arab khanjars, more than my Indonesian example, especially the size.

I have wondered in the past if these blade styles were trade blades or home grown products.

VVV · 4th October 2012, 09:40 PM

Interesting combination.
The dress seems to be Javanese.
Maybe the hilt is a later (European?) addition, as suggested.
Some of the Sundanese blades made for Westerners also have stag horn hilts, but the style of this hilt doesn't look Sundanese or Javanese.

Michael

Iain · 4th October 2012, 11:01 PM

I am probably completely off here - but the non latin characters on the pommel inscription look a bit like Thai script?

CharlesS · 5th October 2012, 01:53 AM

I have no clue what the Latin script means, but it is the secondary script that is key to telling us more about this dagger.

It does, indeed, look Thai or Burmese, but I am not familiar with the scripts of the Indonesian archipelago.

...still holding out hope that someone will have an answer...actually for EITHER of the scripts!

CharlesS · 5th October 2012, 01:56 AM

Michael,

I think you are spot on. I really believe this is custom made for a westerner that may have gone "mildly native". I too think it is from a Javanese craftsman, but still want to what we get on that script.

PUFF · 3rd December 2012, 11:44 AM

not Thai script. It 's unreadable to me.

Maurice · 3rd December 2012, 03:34 PM

Charles, I agree with Michael.
The little clip at the belt I've seen more often on Javanese Tjikeroeh swords.

Regards,
Maurice

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 3rd December 2012, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

This is a very interesting old composite dagger whose origin I would like to identify. The dagger is massive and heavy. It measures 15in. overall, with a heavy 9in. blade from an Arab jambiya. The hilt is stag horn with an inscription at the pommel's end. The scabbard is polished horn with silver alloy fittings.

The blade's origin speaks for itself. The scabbard style looks very Indonesian to me.

I am hoping someone can translate both inscriptions. I think the key to its origin is in the bottom inscription.

Thanks in advance for any help!!!

Salaams Charles S ~ Well that is interesting ~ It looks like an Omani blade mounted with a peculiar hilt from wherever? The Roman Letters are as seen... but under that are the apparent initials H H ... This in Muli Alam the language of Kerala making the link Oman / Kerala on the West coast of India... with whom much trade has been done.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

4th October 2012, 06:13 PM	#1
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Interesting Composite Dagger With Ethnographic Roots...Need Translation Help! This is a very interesting old composite dagger whose origin I would like to identify. The dagger is massive and heavy. It measures 15in. overall, with a heavy 9in. blade from an Arab jambiya. The hilt is stag horn with an inscription at the pommel's end. The scabbard is polished horn with silver alloy fittings. The blade's origin speaks for itself. The scabbard style looks very Indonesian to me. I am hoping someone can translate both inscriptions. I think the key to its origin is in the bottom inscription. Thanks in advance for any help!!! Attached Images

4th October 2012, 07:17 PM	#2
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Hey Charles, I seen this one before somewhere... Well its a nice item but dont think the blade is Arabic maybe Indonesian made in the style of Arabian jambiya/khanjar blade. Probably the scabbard and blade are from the same time but the hilt is the only replacement.

4th October 2012, 07:36 PM	#3
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	The Indonesians did make jambiyas in the Arabic style, normally with different fittings, and scabbards, but this compares quite favorably with my other Arab khanjars, more than my Indonesian example, especially the size. I have wondered in the past if these blade styles were trade blades or home grown products.

4th October 2012, 09:40 PM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Interesting combination. The dress seems to be Javanese. Maybe the hilt is a later (European?) addition, as suggested. Some of the Sundanese blades made for Westerners also have stag horn hilts, but the style of this hilt doesn't look Sundanese or Javanese. Michael

4th October 2012, 11:01 PM	#5
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,693	I am probably completely off here - but the non latin characters on the pommel inscription look a bit like Thai script?

5th October 2012, 01:53 AM	#6
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	I have no clue what the Latin script means, but it is the secondary script that is key to telling us more about this dagger. It does, indeed, look Thai or Burmese, but I am not familiar with the scripts of the Indonesian archipelago. ...still holding out hope that someone will have an answer...actually for EITHER of the scripts!

5th October 2012, 01:56 AM	#7
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Michael, I think you are spot on. I really believe this is custom made for a westerner that may have gone "mildly native". I too think it is from a Javanese craftsman, but still want to what we get on that script.

3rd December 2012, 11:44 AM	#8
PUFF Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 30 miles north of Bangkok, 20 miles south of Ayuthaya, Thailand Posts: 224	not Thai script. It 's unreadable to me.

3rd December 2012, 03:34 PM	#9
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,346	Charles, I agree with Michael. The little clip at the belt I've seen more often on Javanese Tjikeroeh swords. Regards, Maurice