Shamshir origin and age help.

[10thRoyal]

Good evening. I was lucky enough to pick up what was billed as a "19th century shamshir" at an estate sale and was hoping for y'all's help. I am quite inexperienced with these blades and don't have the eye for determining age yet. I won't have it in hand for a few days but have enough images to get an idea. Would love to hear y'all's thoughts.

To my amateur eye it appears to be earlier than 19th century. Grip was replaced at a later date. Kind of amazed that the scabbard is mostly intact.

[10thRoyal]

Three locations seem to have inscriptions: both sides of the guard and the back strap on the tang.

I've only gotten a good look at one side of the guard but it looks like نَصْرٌ مِّن اللَّهِ وَفَتْحٌ قَرِيبٌ (Help from Allah and victory is near). Very possible I'm dead wrong on that.

Hopefully clearer images of the other two inscriptions on Tuesday.

Oh, and still mulling over whether this looks to be wootz or not. I know trying to judge that from low resolution pictures of the unetched blade is basically hopeless but I'm too excited not to speculate.

[Rick]

The last picture in your first post looks pretty wootzy.
The stag grips seem to be 'out of culture' and a material I haven't seen used before on a shamshir.

[Turkoman.khan]

Hello, my friend. Congratulations. Excellent shamshir. I think early 19th century or mid 19th century. At that time, almost all quality shamshir blades in the region came from Persia. I think that the blade of your shamshir may be made of wootz steel.
The scabbard was most likely originally made in Persia (judging by its design - embossing on the skin). But in my opinion, scabbard tip with crest are made in Afghanistan. However, I would like to see more detailed photos.
The use of deer antler for the shamshir handle is not common. Nevertheless it was. Such hilts can sometimes be seen among shamshirs from Khorasan, Afghanistan and among Turkmen tribes.

[JBG163]

Definitively a wootz blade here. Congrats

[10thRoyal]

Thank y'all very much for your input. Is there any hallmarks that help with determining age of a shamshir? I know the basics of identifying place of origin but to me there doesn't seem to be much change in form over the past couple centuries.

The edge of the scales doesn't seem to match up quite well enough with the tang for me to think the grip was original.

Also, any rules on applying mink oil or conditioner to the scabbard to keep it from cracking or drying out further?

[10thRoyal]

Oh it is more than I could have hoped for

[Rick]

In your top photo of the blade the wootz pattern seems to fade out. Is this because you didn't etch that far and that's the reason? Or could it be a scarf weld perhaps?

[10thRoyal]

Originally Posted by Rick

In your top photo of the blade the wootz pattern seems to fade out. Is this because you didn't etch that far and that's the reason? Or could it be a scarf weld perhaps?

This was the state it was in when I received it, so it looks like an old etching. There doesn't seem to be an obvious scarf weld so my guess is that is just where the scabbard has been rubbing.

[werecow]

Originally Posted by Rick

The stag grips seem to be 'out of culture' and a material I haven't seen used before on a shamshir.

I have this saif with similar material on the grip but they are also clearly replacement scales.

[10thRoyal]

Originally Posted by werecow

I have this saif with similar material on the grip but they are also clearly replacement scales.

I think the clearest sign of it being a replacement for both of ours is that the scale material doesn't continue under the pommel cap(unsure if there is a technical term for this piece).

[werecow]

... And in my case the weirdly huge shiny recent looking rivets going through it.

(As an aside, I'm not great at identifying materials, but given the color I've wondered if they are old red bone knife scales, rather than stag.)

[Kmaddock]

I replaced the grips on my shamshir and I used buffalo horn, which I purchased in a Pet shop where portions were been sold as dog chews.

The job worked out well and the horn polished very easily with sand paper.

I uses a bushman saw blade to cut the horn roughly as any finer saw teeth blocked up too quickly and I shaped the horn with a power file, a smelly job as it sort of burns through the horn.
The blade on mine was not as fantastic as yours well done on a fine acquisition.

Regards

Ken

[Teisani]

Your shamshir reminds me o this one
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=csuCtq...c2hhbXNoaXI%3D

[10thRoyal]

Originally Posted by Teisani

Your shamshir reminds me o this one
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=csuCtq...c2hhbXNoaXI%3D

You are not wrong! That looks like a very similar one to mine.