Tridacna hilted Keris choices

[Gavin Nugent]

Good people,

I have another two keris added to my growing modest collection today.
Both appear to be original and untouched, showing nice honest patina to the hilts, mendak, blades and scabbards. Both have Tridacna hilts with beautiful swirl patterns throughout and they feel so very comfortable and pleasing when both held and viewed, really a total feeling of comfort.
My question really is one of personal choice but I wish to hear words of wisdom from those more familiar with such choices. To touch or not to touch.
By touch I mean, change from this long standing static condition to a rejuvenated condition, oil the scabbards, clean the blades and polish the mendaks. One Mendak has been squashed but I think with care this will 'pop' right out.
Your direction is sought.

thanks

Gav

[PenangsangII]

Hi Gav,

I'm no wiseman nor keris expert but I give you my 2 cent worth : Pls "touch" all except the hilt...

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Hi Gav,

I'm no wiseman nor keris expert but I give you my 2 cent worth : Pls "touch" all except the hilt...

Hi and thank you.

I too feel the same about the hilt and this is why I did not mention it above.

Best regards

Gav

[Sajen]

Hello Gav,

I am with Penangsang. A stain to the blades will maybe bring out a nice surprise too. The both rare Tridacna hilts seem to be from Sumatra/Peninsula while the blades and sheaths are from Java.

Regards,

Detlef

[David]

Originally Posted by freebooter

I have another two keris added to my growing modest collection today.
Both appear to be original and untouched, showing nice honest patina to the hilts, mendak, blades and scabbards.

Great hilts. Now i realize that different people sometimes have different ideas when they say "original and untouched", but to my eye i see 2 Javanese (or possibly old Maduran) sheaths and blades with hilt styles from the Peninsula, so i have my doubts that these hilts originally belonged to these blades. In that sense these hilts look a bit out of place on these blades with their Javanese mendaks and sheaths.
That said i would clean the blades and maybe hit the hilts with some mineral oil and a soft toothbrush.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Gav,

I am with Penangsang. A stain to the blades will maybe bring out a nice surprise too. The both rare Tridacna hilts seem to be from Sumatra/Peninsula while the blades and sheaths are from Java.

Regards,

Detlef

Thank you Detlef.

I was surprised when they arrived as I thought I bought a pair of ivory hilted Madura Keris and bought them with the intention to pass these on but once I held and viewed the hilts and blades closely, as noted above, I found them so comfortable and personally appealing.
The hilts seem to be a long time marriage and also stuck fast like so many hilts are, something I will remedy. The scabbard however, although having the same long time static patina consistant with the rest of the Keris, to me there are in no way the proper scabbards...but I guess for display the consistancy of keeping them the same prevailed over all other choices. The actual scabbard is the reason why one Mendak is squashed .
Is there a valid reason why these components could be joined together, apart from collector means and choices?

Originally Posted by David

Great hilts. Now i realize that different people sometimes have different ideas when they say "original and untouched", but to my eye i see 2 Javanese (or possibly old Maduran) sheaths and blades with hilt styles from the Peninsula, so i have my doubts that these hilts originally belonged to these blades. In that sense these hilts look a bit out of place on these blades with their Javanese mendaks and sheaths.
That said i would clean the blades and maybe hit the hilts with some mineral oil and a soft toothbrush.

Thanks David,

Yes differences in ideas can come across wrong if not communicated correctly
You all have given me directions to consider, thank you.
Of couse more opinions are welcome whilst I go ponder the direction these will take.

Gav

[Sajen]

Hi Gav,

it's funny, last year I bought by e-bay a similar combination, a javanese keris/sheath with a (I think) sumatran hilt from Tridacna, here the link: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8990

How can it happen that you find combinations like this? We have had discussions at this place many times. Collectors may have done this or dealer also. But I have seen this also on old pictures. So it's nearby that this mix maybe have been done long time ago in Indonesia or Peninsula by what reason however.
Do you have a provenance for this pieces in question?
A picture from up to the sheath-mouth would be nice to see how the blades fit inside will show if the scabbard is worked for the blade.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Gav,

it's funny, last year I bought by e-bay a similar combination, a javanese keris/sheath with a (I think) sumatran hilt from Tridacna, here the link: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8990

How can it happen that you find combinations like this? We have had discussions at this place many times. Collectors may have done this or dealer also. But I have seen this also on old pictures. So it's nearby that this mix maybe have been done long time ago in Indonesia or Peninsula by what reason however.
Do you have a provenance for this pieces in question?
A picture from up to the sheath-mouth would be nice to see how the blades fit inside will show if the scabbard is worked for the blade.

Hi Detlef,

Interesting that you also found this combination, especially in old pictures.
Speculation could run away with me if thinking about how these all came to be together. The provenance is none. These came from an old German estate some time back.
The fitting as you will see in images below is not correct to me eye. One close but no prize to me.
What I do find of interest is the base of the hilts. Where say the examples from the Kelling Hall collection I have, that I know have been together complete for near 100years (maybe a fair bit older too) and I would suspect based on this are original to the pieces from the period, these three are rounded to the base and sit in the cup of their Mendak. The two here have a 'flattened' base and sit by design on top of their Mendak...

Gav

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Hi Detlef,

Interesting that you also found this combination, especially in old pictures.
Speculation could run away with me if thinking about how these all came to be together. The provenance is none. These came from an old German estate some time back.
The fitting as you will see in images below is not correct to me eye. One close but no prize to me.
What I do find of interest is the base of the hilts. Where say the examples from the Kelling Hall collection I have, that I know have been together complete for near 100years and I would suspect based on this are original to the pieces from the period, these three are rounded to the base and sit in the cup of their Mendak. The two here have a 'flattened' base and sit by design on top of their Mendak...

Gav

Oh, sorry, this is a missunderstanding. I haven't seen direct this combination in old pictures. I've meant just combinations of different styles/origin.
The sheaths are indeed not worked for this blades. So hilts and blades are maybe longer married, but who knows.

The hilts are both just beautiful and they look Penninsula to my eyes but others will it know it better.
The mendaks are clearly javanese and don't fitting with this hilts.

[Sajen]

Just want to add that the blades can come also from the Palembang area in South Sumatra. I am unsure by this and think that others will know it exactly.

[Alam Shah]

The 2 hilts are beautiful. I reckon of Sumatran origin from the hilt form. The blades could be Sumatran as well.

Palembang or Pesisir sheath form (similar to the Banten sheath) should looks fitting for these 2 blades. A bugis or lotus cup form, should look appropriate for these ensemble. Again, if you feel bored with these, do let me know..

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

The 2 hilts are beautiful. I reckon of Sumatran origin from the hilt form. The blades could be Sumatran as well.

Palembang or Pesisir sheath form (similar to the Banten sheath) should looks fitting for these 2 blades. A bugis or lotus cup form, should look appropriate for these ensemble. Again, if you feel bored with these, do let me know..

Thank you for your experienced words, it is appreciated greatly. I will endevour to do as you have indicated.

Gav

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

The 2 hilts are beautiful. I reckon of Sumatran origin from the hilt form. The blades could be Sumatran as well.

Palembang or Pesisir sheath form (similar to the Banten sheath) should looks fitting for these 2 blades. A bugis or lotus cup form, should look appropriate for these ensemble. Again, if you feel bored with these, do let me know..

You, and the rest of us Shahrial .

I do wonder about the fit in the wrongkos; either they are enlarged by use and are pretty old , or they were matched to corresponding sarongs; I do not know .

The fit of the one wilah in the sarong that you show must be very old if it is original to this keris as it sits so deep .

[Marcokeris]

My compliment Gav
Very good work in your hits.