Checking In

Rick · 15th November 2005, 09:35 PM

I'm here .

Anyone else who wants to feel free to check in on this thread .

Antonio Cejunior · 16th November 2005, 12:47 AM

Hi Rick and everyone else.

This is wonderful as EEWS shows their trust on our commitment and is committed as well, thank you.

Further to Andrew's sticky, here's my Mission Statementthat complements Mark's. Both should be read carefully.

On the other hand let me inform you that the new contributions are already uploaded herewith full information.
We are putting our money where our mouth is.

It is a wonderful sign of trust by EEWS and we believe our effort with the Masters of Fire Exhibition speaks about our committment.

Look forward for your contribution.

Thanks

Antonio

Bill · 16th November 2005, 12:57 AM

Hi Rick, Reading briefly, I see that 35 pieces are being sought. Is there a breakdown for Luzon, Visayas, and the South; as well as what type of each sword? Thanks

Antonio Cejunior · 16th November 2005, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

Hi Rick, Reading briefly, I see that 35 pieces are being sought. Is there a breakdown for Luzon, Visayas, and the South; as well as what type of each sword? Thanks

Hi Bill,

Allow me to provide you with an answer as close as possible.
1. Yes, it is about 35 pieces but we can see more and then make a virtual selection.
2. My suggestion is that contribution should be as follows:
a. Sword Type
b. Area of provenance
c. Estimated date of making.

In other words, it is a unique occasion to show, (say) a broad spectrum of a Kris or a Bolo from the North to the South or vice-versa.

Bearing this in mind, and thinking about it in practical terms, we can only have this known if collectors come forward and email me their pieces with descriptions after they see what exists and what is missing and can be filled

Thank you.

Antonio
Exhibition Coordinator
Macao Museum of Art

Andrew · 16th November 2005, 03:14 PM

Hi guys. Just checking in.

As you all know, I'm only a spectator regarding PI weapons, so I'm available for administrative assistance, if needed.

Battara · 16th November 2005, 07:46 PM

I was one of the original contributors before things fell apart.

I guess we are starting from scratch all over again.

Antonio Cejunior · 16th November 2005, 07:56 PM

Hi Battara,

Good to see you.

We're sort of starting from scratch. I have the old page untouched. Only changed the url. Sometimes it is better to prune the past and just check in again

I can assure we all, EEWS and the Museum, looks forward for everyone's contribution.
Will go back to sleep. It is 2:55 AM.

Mark · 16th November 2005, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I was one of the original contributors before things fell apart.

I guess we are starting from scratch all over again.

Work is never entirely lost, Jose. Even if it seems to be thrown out, the experience makes the next round of planning easier.

I encourage you all to start raining on Antonio and me pictures of stuff that you would like to show to the world to teach them about this thing that you love. Or at the least start raining more questions. If there is any uncertainty out there, either in what is needed or how it will be done, bring it up (here, by PM, or by e-mail), as I am sure you are not alone. The sooner you all start piling the clay on the wheel, the sooner the pot will be finished.

Starting discussion on your individual ideas about content and structure in a more general sense even before the candidate pieces start accumulating will be invaluable. Throw out list of what you think needs to be represented or taught (Moro, Bontoc ... Luzan, Mindanao ... working, fighting,ceremonial ... kris, kampilan, mandau, head axes ... use, manufacture, materials, import, export ... whatever), or how the material might be broken down and organized. You are the ones with the knowledge and expertise, so don't be shy. If this is going to work you all need to jump right in (and on the other hand, also need to be open and tolerant of each other's views, suggestions and opinions).

Remember that this forum, and what you do and say amongst yourselves, is 100% confidential and known only to you the contributors, and to Antonio, Lee Jones, Andrew, Ian and myself (even the existance of the forum, and the fact of your respective involvements at this point). Nothing leaves the family, so please speak freely even if it is something off of the top of your head or a crazy idea. Heck, I suggested to Antonio about three days ago that the Section be expanded to cover Malaysia and Indonesia.

Needless to say, the idea flew in much the same way that bricks don't (to paraphrase Douglass Adams).

Rock and Roll! Release the hounds! Once more into the breach! One, two! one, two! And through and through, the vorpal blade went snicker-snack!

Antonio Cejunior · 17th November 2005, 02:14 AM

Hi All,

Whether you are a new contributor or a a present one, this is what was put up from the recent past after this has been pruned. I am almost sure I did not make any mistake.

Clich hereto view. Now we must obtain these contributors confirmation as well other contributions they might have. As they confirm, I will pass the pictures and information to the present page .
Both have back ups with insurance.
Let us not use the cloths shown and just concentrate on the weapons and photographs now.
This exhibition will go down in History in a book's form and will be a source of consultation for years to come. We all need to have this historical vision gentleman. Like I always say: cooperation is much better than confrontation

Than you all.
Antonio

Federico · 17th November 2005, 04:56 AM

Hello Antonio

First off I must apologize in advanced if the tone of my writing is terse in the next few weeks. Unfortunately the timing of the events that happened occured during a highly busy time for me, and my time that I can dedicate to posting is very limited, and can only be done quickly. So if I sound terse, it is due to the time constraints I am currently in, and in no way reflects an un-cooperative spirit.

Everything I offered for exhibit earlier is still on the table. Though given the recent uncertainty of contributors I can add more pieces as needed (eg. some of the pieces I alluded to in my other post such as a head axeas well as older period textiles of the warrior class to replace the newer contemporary textiles I had previously offered). I am willing to send every piece in my collection (barring ivory pieces) if the need is there.

I still feel we need strong coordination in deciding who is contributing what pieces, so that we can draw out central themes that are more representative of the Sandata. Without some coordination we run the danger of artificially over-representing certain areas of the Sandata while de-emphasizing others due to our own tastes in collection. I feel it is greatly important to get at least a rough idea of who at this point will be contributing, and at least a guess as to what can be contributed (hence the other thread). So if other contributors read this post, please chime in on the other thread. The faster we can figure out who is a contributor and what they can contribute, the faster every other aspect of this exhibit can be accomplished.

Federico

Antonio Cejunior · 17th November 2005, 05:51 AM

Hi Federico

Wonderful hearing from you

No worries about sounding terse or tense or whatever. I know you are very busy. We are all enriched by your cooperation.

I'm used to take quick decisions when I was the boss at the Macau Cultural and Recreational services, but I now can only make suggestions.

My suggestion is that:
1. You allow me to move your pieces to the new site and please add in some more by emailing Mark and myself. Remember, images must be numbered as FM7.jpg - FM8.jpg as examples and then description with corresponding numbers. You may PM or email me to allow me to transfer the images to the new page.

You may ask why do I have to throw in more pieces?
My answer is:

a. Provides a wider panorama of what you have available and allows all of us to see.

b. Logistically it is much better to have one collector contributing with various pieces than too many collectors contributing with one or two pieces.
It means less shipments, therefore less logistics.

Coordination-Selection
I suggest that Battara for the Collectors, Mark, Ian & Rick for EEWS (they may choose between them who and how many to elect) and myself for the Museum, will form a Selection Group (let's not call it a Committee

)
Disclaimer: my ignorance may have ommitted someone but I am still ignorant of all the specialists.

Battara and EEWS will provide the specimens advice, I will provide input on the view of the display that is in my mind. Please be advised that the entire exhibition has to have one style, and I'm here on the field, know the problems and the space availability and so forth.

Here are two examples of different layouts for the same gallery, therefore my role will be very much the constructive Devil's Advocate.

So when every good willed collector throws in his contributions (please do not self exclude anything just because it is a duplicate) we can go into the process of selection. Since this is not a Miss Universe, this is not about loosers and winners but about a really historical event of a group of collectors showing its vitalitity and sense of long term vision

Thank you all
Antonio

Federico · 17th November 2005, 08:50 AM

I will not be able to photograph and measure my entire collection by the 25th. Most likely I will probably not have the time to do so til after the 7th or 8th.

Antonio Cejunior · 17th November 2005, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Federico

I will not be able to photograph and measure my entire collection by the 25th. Most likely I will probably not have the time to do so til after the 7th or 8th.

Will do. Please check your PM.
I'll be posting next a small brief and simple tutorial

Antonio Cejunior · 17th November 2005, 10:55 AM

Gentlemen,

May I share with you all a simple set up.

1. If you want to be in open air, do not be on plain sunlight, but on shadowed area.
2. If you are at home, choose a place near a window.

This is a 600 pixels wide photograph. It is taken from an imaginary window and you can see the styrofoam background on the floor and the vertical styrofoam reflector with a chair or stool behind for reflecting the light from the window. The reflector bounces the light on the opposite side of the window.

Here is the result. In internet be always aware to take the pictures in horizontal shape whenever prossible, be it a general view or a close up detail.
The sword should be placed in a diagonal line to maximize its size in the 600 pixels format.

One the set up is done, and it is very simple using natural light, it takes about the time to frame and shoot. Then the next one, and another and the next.

In no time this can be achieved.
Hope it helps everyone.

One mistake: I did not take the picture with the blade unsheathed.
Here is one which should be the standard procedure.

Always the blade on top and the sheath parallel to the blade.

It is really simple and quick.

Hope it helps everyone.

Federico · 17th November 2005, 06:27 PM

Need some clarification here.

So only one thread in this forum should be active?

Do we have any idea yet who is contributing pieces, is it just myself, Rick, and Jose (battara)? Given the proposed deadline for submission is only a week away, so far these are the only people on this forum who have voiced here a willingness to contribute (I am unsure how much activity is occuring off this forum or before it was set up).

The theme of what weapons of the Philippines from which representative areas will be decided by a committee composed of Jose, Anotonio, Rick, Mark, and Ian? Since I will not be part of this process, are you guys willing to share how you plan on dividing the Philippines? Which regions or what types of weapons will receive attention?

I had hoped we could identify our needs in the display first, as it would be easier to photograph a few representative individual pieces (eg. if we only need bolo only photographing bolo instead of kris), rather than all 50 some pieces (the vast majority consisting of low quality pieces in various degrees of dis-repair) of my Philippine collection. But since the request has been to photograph my enitre collection, and since we are limited to around 35 pieces, I can do some quick group shots of the pieces that are complete enough (eg. not missing too many parts such as hilts and contain no ivory) that would be suitable for display, and once decided by the committee which pieces are suitable take the individual shots and measurements. Though I must warn the committee in advanced my collection is not very representative of the entire Philippines, nor does it contain very many "quality" pieces, I hope you will take this in mind when making your decision, and not let the slant of my collection influence what areas of the Philippines will be displayed.

Bill · 17th November 2005, 06:58 PM

How long will the swords be gone? I have a couple that can not be replaced, how will insurance work for something like that. I have about 200 PI swords, most that are just average pieces. Group pics would be a good thing, as I'm not sure exactly what is being sought. Then better pics of what may of interest. Would it complicate posting group pics here? I have several old barungs; by themselves, they are average. But one may fit in nicely if there were a time table of the barung; the same might be said about any type of PI sword. I have 4 barungs with what appears to be Chinese characters, are they of interest. I have a few pieces that seem to be from the PI, but I am not sure. I've posted a lot of pics on the forum, is there a particular sword that might be of interest?

Rick · 17th November 2005, 08:01 PM

Hi Guys , I'm simply a participant and helper here ; I do not expect to (nor should I) be on the final selection committee .

I hope that if any of my descriptions are incorrect someone will step up and help to rectify the situation .

Bill I am sending a few irreplacable pieces myself ; I believe in the Museum and I believe that FEDEX will do a proper job in returning your pieces .

I guess that what this all boils down to is having trust in the process .
I will continue to add to my Moro selection ; and when you look at the nature of these pieces each unique in their own way you could say that they're ALL irreplacable .

ibeam · 17th November 2005, 09:45 PM

Hello All,
I just got Rick's PM yesterday and would be glad to loan a few pieces to the Museum. Like Federico mentioned, moro swords will be well covered so I would like to contribute on the other areas. I have a few Luzon bolos (katipunan era pieces) and also a few Visayan bolos (tenegre, sanduko, banangong, and such). Now where and who do I send pics??

Regards,
Jonathan

Mark · 17th November 2005, 10:06 PM

To answer as many of these questions as I can from my own experience and understanding (and I guess preference as far as the forum itself goes).

Threads: As many as you need. I know Antonio suggested otherwise, but I AM IN CONTROL!!!!! (mua ha ha ha ha ....).

Seriously, my thinking is that a few, focused threads on specific topics is better than mushy threads that sort of cover everything. In this way, everyone can go right to the topic in order to ask or get answered any question they have without have to search through a long string of posts in one huge thread. I will start a few that I think might be useful, and we can decide if it works or not.

Photos: You don't have to photograph your entire collection. The first thing I did was look through my collection and physically pull out and put aside the pieces that I thought were nice and would be good for the section. Then to the extent I didn't have some picture of it already, I took a quick photo. It doesn't have to be a Picasso or Pulitzer Prize caliber picture, but something clear enough to let the other's see what it is & how it looks. The high quality pictures for the catalogue will be taken by the Museum once the final pieces arrive in Macao.

Time away from home: I am allowing six months in my own mind, between the time before the show for processing, the three months exhibition itself, and some time to pack up and ship back after the show. Antonio I am sure will give a better answer than that, though.

Decision making: That is most of what will be done here on the Forum. I have no idea personally about what to put in and what not to, but I can help with suggestions just based on what I know of the exhibition hall layout (which I have seen in person), and what I have learned while doing my own section. I have already given a few just about sort of the mental approach you should all take. I do highly recommend that one or two people make the first broad cut once everything is on the table. What I did at first was to take everything we had and group stuff by similarity, literally moving photos around in a PowerPoint file. Then we looked them over and decided which best showed a particular style or feature or historic period. It also helped us notice gaps. So maybe one person at first can sit and take all the barongs offered and put them together, all the kris, etc. I did this by printing out the pictures from our working page and laying them out on the floor in stacks, then going back and re-grouping the pictures on the computer. We had fewer pieces than you do, but I suggest organizing them in groups as a list with their ID numbers, and forwarding that to Antonio and I, who will then physically group them on the web (assuming that is what you all want).

Posting some pictures here as suggestions by whoever does this first step is a good idea, as well as posting representatives of the proposed groups. Whatever you think will work, and we can adjust as we go along.

Irreplacable pieces Rick said it all. Everything in this exhibition will be irreplaceable, either literally or sentimentally. We do need to have a certain level of trust in the process. There are things that are priceless to the point where placing an insurance value on them, no matter how high, is meaningless. I have said many times that based on direct personal interviews and inspections of the Museum operations & facilities, that Antonio, the Museum, and the Museum staff have my 100% confidence in every respect. Of course, that opinion is worth as much as my credibility is with you, but I hope I have at least a little.

If you don't know, I am a 42 year-old lawyer who has not only lived abroad, but have had my share of getting screwed, this in addition to spending 12+ years litigating against other wily lawyers, which sharpens your BS detecter, your paranoia, and your ability not to be taken for a ride. So, I know what to look for and what to look out for.

I hope this helps. I am sure others have more to add. I'll go start some basic threads, now.

Mark · 17th November 2005, 10:08 PM

Great to have you on board, Jonathan! Just read my first sticky thread above, and probably 90% of your questions will be answered. Hopefully.

i likely failed to address a lot of things, but I tried to cover the basics.

Mark

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibeam

Hello All,
I just got Rick's PM yesterday and would be glad to loan a few pieces to the Museum. Like Federico mentioned, moro swords will be well covered so I would like to contribute on the other areas. I have a few Luzon bolos (katipunan era pieces) and also a few Visayan bolos (tenegre, sanduko, banangong, and such). Now where and who do I send pics??

Regards,
Jonathan

Antonio Cejunior · 17th November 2005, 10:16 PM

FRED

Quote:

Originally Posted by Federico

Need some clarification here.

So only one thread in this forum should be active?

No, but I though it would be a good idea for the introductory process to concentrate all the information in one thread, so all contributors get information.
Then we can split in different topic threads such as Swords Final Selection once we have the submissions.
Another thread for Packing and Shipping and so forth. This will grow naturally.

Quote:

Do we have any idea yet who is contributing pieces, is it just myself, Rick, and Jose (battara)? Given the proposed deadline for submission is only a week away, so far these are the only people on this forum who have voiced here a willingness to contribute (I am unsure how much activity is occuring off this forum or before it was set up).

I will ask Rick and Mark to PM you the people who were contacted.
One week is not that short for submissions, if you consider that a picture as I posted above, will take less than a minute to take, after the set up.
People can send the picture with the identification and leave the measurements for later, for selection purposes, if that suits each contributor. We have to be flexible.

Quote:

The theme of what weapons of the Philippines from which representative areas will be decided by a committee composed of Jose, Anotonio, Rick, Mark, and Ian? Since I will not be part of this process, are you guys willing to share how you plan on dividing the Philippines? Which regions or what types of weapons will receive attention?

I'm writing to you at 4:50 AM my time because it is my available time. The names were suggested by me since I was aware you are busy but I would very much hope you would participate in the selection. Specially since you will be writting the article. The representative areas should be stated by you, gentlemen. I'm here to help with the organization skills I have from the Museum.

Quote:

I had hoped we could identify our needs in the display first, as it would be easier to photograph a few representative individual pieces (eg. if we only need bolo only photographing bolo instead of kris), rather than all 50 some pieces (the vast majority consisting of low quality pieces in various degrees of dis-repair) of my Philippine collection. But since the request has been to photograph my enitre collection, and since we are limited to around 35 pieces, I can do some quick group shots of the pieces that are complete enough (eg. not missing too many parts such as hilts and contain no ivory) that would be suitable for display, and once decided by the committee which pieces are suitable take the individual shots and measurements. Though I must warn the committee in advanced my collection is not very representative of the entire Philippines, nor does it contain very many "quality" pieces, I hope you will take this in mind when making your decision, and not let the slant of my collection influence what areas of the Philippines will be displayed.

I doubt very much at this stage that anyone can identify the needs. And please hear me: 35 pieces are a guideline for now. Let things unfold. You don't have to put in all your collection. My opinion is that you may want to photograph them all as a back up and just submit the ones you deem more representative and of higher quality. Then, when the panorama is in full view you can say, hey I can throw in this piece to fill in this area.
Hope this helps clarify.

Antonio Cejunior · 17th November 2005, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

How long will the swords be gone? I have a couple that can not be replaced, how will insurance work for something like that. I have about 200 PI swords, most that are just average pieces. Group pics would be a good thing, as I'm not sure exactly what is being sought. Then better pics of what may of interest. Would it complicate posting group pics here? I have several old barungs; by themselves, they are average. But one may fit in nicely if there were a time table of the barung; the same might be said about any type of PI sword. I have 4 barungs with what appears to be Chinese characters, are they of interest. I have a few pieces that seem to be from the PI, but I am not sure. I've posted a lot of pics on the forum, is there a particular sword that might be of interest?

Hi Bill,

The exhibition will begin in May 2006 and will last for 3 months. The schedule is on the sticky thread posted by Mark.
Insurance is against all risks and is done with an Insurance Company that works with the Museum, so they know our requirements. Please don't worry because our responsibility is much higher. If you check the Masters of Fire Exhibition Preparations link you'll see how we handle things.

I must apologize, but I have requested Rick to change the two spears pictures in one picture per description. We cannot go for group pictures. Please bear with me, it is very confusing to start saying the second from the left. We must work from the beggining with References. I submitted one piece AC1 That's all I got, but it is identifiable as AC1

I very much appreciate your understanding and precious collaboration.
We cannot go fishing for pics on the forum.

Please read my reply to Federico Malibago.

Thank you

Your contribution is most precious. My email is {e-mail address removed 1/4/06} and it is in the sticky post.

Antonio Cejunior · 17th November 2005, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Bowditch

I know Antonio suggested otherwise, but I AM IN CONTROL!!!!! (mua ha ha ha ha ....).

Aye Gov'nah

Seriously now, I saw the nice set of threads you put up.
Applause

Thanks Mark

Antonio

Antonio Cejunior · 18th November 2005, 01:41 PM

Hi everyone,

Federico has authorized me to update the contributors page with his early entries. Please go here to see the new updates. Please do not forget to click Refresh in your browser. I will also change the inches measurements into metric and plead with everyone contributing to make the measurements in centimeters.

We now have 18 items. Like I said before, please everyone, do not let yourselves be confined to the 35 items at this stage.

We are building an exhibition. Most exhibitions are presented from one Museum to another or one single collection. It is not our case and the challenge of creating it in a most constructive and mature way is what is making this project really unique.

Thank you

Antonio Cejunior · 24th November 2005, 10:39 AM

Hi everyone,

We have reached a very encouraging number of entries.
Please check here and we're still waiting for Vandoo's entries.
I think that once everyone send me their entries as descriptions,
we will be able to start the selection process and discuss it.

Let's wait until the end of the month? November 30?

This is great work.
Very best to all,
Antonio

Antonio Cejunior · 27th November 2005, 12:52 AM

Hi Gentlemen,

Just thought I would chime in.
Until now, the entries list has reached a record of 76, soon to be 78 as I mistakenly thought two items were repetitions.

This is really amazing. Please take a good look at the link's contents.

I now there are more to come.

Bless you all.

Battara · 27th November 2005, 02:03 AM

Boy do I feel stupid - I just now re-read this thread and saw your suggestion for me to coordinate and select the collectors part.

Catching on slowly but surely.

Antonio Cejunior · 27th November 2005, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Boy do I feel stupid - I just now re-read this thread and saw your suggestion for me to coordinate and select the collectors part.

Catching on slowly but surely.

No problem

My record was being introduced to one of our best friends for fifteen times. At that time she could not endure more and said:
Antonio, enough is enough! Best take a good look at me. We know you live in another world, but come down for a moment. Yiiiikes!

It turned out she is one of my wife's best friends.

So no problem since an email has been sent to you

Best regards,

Antonio Cejunior · 30th November 2005, 12:20 AM

Good morning everyone,

In view of the need to ensure that pictures on the list are very clear I took the liberty of making a Swords Photography Tutorial in case any of our generous contributors have any difficulty with getting things right.
I will now only upload photographs that carry enough quality and clearness as the pictures will be all the Museum will have for showing the Insurance Company therefore it is on your own interest.

Please don't take me wrong or misunderstand me. The group has been nothing but FANTASTIC and GENEROUS but I really want to be sure things are very clear and beyond doubt. I hope the tutorial is usable by some of you gentlemen and in no way intends to be more than a way to assist any contributor which has had difficulties taking pictures with a white background.

Best regards to you all

Antonio

Antonio Cejunior · 8th December 2005, 01:51 PM

Greetings everyone,

I have updated the entries list in terms of weapons information.
Please check here http://www.arscives.com/historysteel...ntributors.htm and click refresh.

So far I have included 119 entries.
Please bear in mind I have received more pictures, some of them in a state that cannot be uploaded due to very confusing and not good for Insurance.
Some other pictures I have received with very scarce or no information and I am a bit disoriented.

I will not name names, for all are very kind and more than generous in contributing, but please update your pictures and your swords list.

Thank you all.

Antonio

15th November 2005, 09:35 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Mission Statement I'm here . Anyone else who wants to feel free to check in on this thread .

16th November 2005, 12:47 AM	#2
Antonio Cejunior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 294	Checking in as well Hi Rick and everyone else. This is wonderful as EEWS shows their trust on our commitment and is committed as well, thank you. Further to Andrew's sticky, here's my Mission Statementthat complements Mark's. Both should be read carefully. On the other hand let me inform you that the new contributions are already uploaded herewith full information. We are putting our money where our mouth is. It is a wonderful sign of trust by EEWS and we believe our effort with the Masters of Fire Exhibition speaks about our committment. Look forward for your contribution. Thanks Antonio Last edited by Mark Bowditch; 16th November 2005 at 02:16 PM. Reason: It's [i]my[/i] welcome :)

17th November 2005, 02:14 AM	#9
Antonio Cejunior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 294	Further: What was uploaded in the Past Hi All, Whether you are a new contributor or a a present one, this is what was put up from the recent past after this has been pruned. I am almost sure I did not make any mistake. Clich hereto view. Now we must obtain these contributors confirmation as well other contributions they might have. As they confirm, I will pass the pictures and information to the present page . Both have back ups with insurance. Let us not use the cloths shown and just concentrate on the weapons and photographs now. This exhibition will go down in History in a book's form and will be a source of consultation for years to come. We all need to have this historical vision gentleman. Like I always say: cooperation is much better than confrontation Than you all. Antonio

17th November 2005, 05:51 AM	#11
Antonio Cejunior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 294	Good news Hi Federico Wonderful hearing from you No worries about sounding terse or tense or whatever. I know you are very busy. We are all enriched by your cooperation. I'm used to take quick decisions when I was the boss at the Macau Cultural and Recreational services, but I now can only make suggestions. My suggestion is that: 1. You allow me to move your pieces to the new site and please add in some more by emailing Mark and myself. Remember, images must be numbered as FM7.jpg - FM8.jpg as examples and then description with corresponding numbers. You may PM or email me to allow me to transfer the images to the new page. You may ask why do I have to throw in more pieces? My answer is: a. Provides a wider panorama of what you have available and allows all of us to see. b. Logistically it is much better to have one collector contributing with various pieces than too many collectors contributing with one or two pieces. It means less shipments, therefore less logistics. Coordination-Selection I suggest that Battara for the Collectors, Mark, Ian & Rick for EEWS (they may choose between them who and how many to elect) and myself for the Museum, will form a Selection Group (let's not call it a Committee ) Disclaimer: my ignorance may have ommitted someone but I am still ignorant of all the specialists. Battara and EEWS will provide the specimens advice, I will provide input on the view of the display that is in my mind. Please be advised that the entire exhibition has to have one style, and I'm here on the field, know the problems and the space availability and so forth. Here are two examples of different layouts for the same gallery, therefore my role will be very much the constructive Devil's Advocate. So when every good willed collector throws in his contributions (please do not self exclude anything just because it is a duplicate) we can go into the process of selection. Since this is not a Miss Universe, this is not about loosers and winners but about a really historical event of a group of collectors showing its vitalitity and sense of long term vision Thank you all Antonio

17th November 2005, 10:55 AM	#14
Antonio Cejunior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 294	Short photo tutorial Gentlemen, May I share with you all a simple set up. 1. If you want to be in open air, do not be on plain sunlight, but on shadowed area. 2. If you are at home, choose a place near a window. This is a 600 pixels wide photograph. It is taken from an imaginary window and you can see the styrofoam background on the floor and the vertical styrofoam reflector with a chair or stool behind for reflecting the light from the window. The reflector bounces the light on the opposite side of the window. Here is the result. In internet be always aware to take the pictures in horizontal shape whenever prossible, be it a general view or a close up detail. The sword should be placed in a diagonal line to maximize its size in the 600 pixels format. One the set up is done, and it is very simple using natural light, it takes about the time to frame and shoot. Then the next one, and another and the next. In no time this can be achieved. Hope it helps everyone. One mistake: I did not take the picture with the blade unsheathed. Here is one which should be the standard procedure. Always the blade on top and the sheath parallel to the blade. It is really simple and quick. Hope it helps everyone.

16th November 2005, 12:57 AM	#3
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Hi Rick, Reading briefly, I see that 35 pieces are being sought. Is there a breakdown for Luzon, Visayas, and the South; as well as what type of each sword? Thanks

16th November 2005, 03:14 PM	#5
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Hi guys. Just checking in. As you all know, I'm only a spectator regarding PI weapons, so I'm available for administrative assistance, if needed.

16th November 2005, 07:46 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	I was one of the original contributors before things fell apart. I guess we are starting from scratch all over again.

16th November 2005, 07:56 PM	#7
Antonio Cejunior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 294	Hi Battara, Good to see you. We're sort of starting from scratch. I have the old page untouched. Only changed the url. Sometimes it is better to prune the past and just check in again I can assure we all, EEWS and the Museum, looks forward for everyone's contribution. Will go back to sleep. It is 2:55 AM.

17th November 2005, 04:56 AM	#10
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Hello Antonio First off I must apologize in advanced if the tone of my writing is terse in the next few weeks. Unfortunately the timing of the events that happened occured during a highly busy time for me, and my time that I can dedicate to posting is very limited, and can only be done quickly. So if I sound terse, it is due to the time constraints I am currently in, and in no way reflects an un-cooperative spirit. Everything I offered for exhibit earlier is still on the table. Though given the recent uncertainty of contributors I can add more pieces as needed (eg. some of the pieces I alluded to in my other post such as a head axeas well as older period textiles of the warrior class to replace the newer contemporary textiles I had previously offered). I am willing to send every piece in my collection (barring ivory pieces) if the need is there. I still feel we need strong coordination in deciding who is contributing what pieces, so that we can draw out central themes that are more representative of the Sandata. Without some coordination we run the danger of artificially over-representing certain areas of the Sandata while de-emphasizing others due to our own tastes in collection. I feel it is greatly important to get at least a rough idea of who at this point will be contributing, and at least a guess as to what can be contributed (hence the other thread). So if other contributors read this post, please chime in on the other thread. The faster we can figure out who is a contributor and what they can contribute, the faster every other aspect of this exhibit can be accomplished. Federico

17th November 2005, 08:50 AM	#12
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	I will not be able to photograph and measure my entire collection by the 25th. Most likely I will probably not have the time to do so til after the 7th or 8th.

17th November 2005, 06:27 PM	#15
Federico Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 312	Need some clarification here. So only one thread in this forum should be active? Do we have any idea yet who is contributing pieces, is it just myself, Rick, and Jose (battara)? Given the proposed deadline for submission is only a week away, so far these are the only people on this forum who have voiced here a willingness to contribute (I am unsure how much activity is occuring off this forum or before it was set up). The theme of what weapons of the Philippines from which representative areas will be decided by a committee composed of Jose, Anotonio, Rick, Mark, and Ian? Since I will not be part of this process, are you guys willing to share how you plan on dividing the Philippines? Which regions or what types of weapons will receive attention? I had hoped we could identify our needs in the display first, as it would be easier to photograph a few representative individual pieces (eg. if we only need bolo only photographing bolo instead of kris), rather than all 50 some pieces (the vast majority consisting of low quality pieces in various degrees of dis-repair) of my Philippine collection. But since the request has been to photograph my enitre collection, and since we are limited to around 35 pieces, I can do some quick group shots of the pieces that are complete enough (eg. not missing too many parts such as hilts and contain no ivory) that would be suitable for display, and once decided by the committee which pieces are suitable take the individual shots and measurements. Though I must warn the committee in advanced my collection is not very representative of the entire Philippines, nor does it contain very many "quality" pieces, I hope you will take this in mind when making your decision, and not let the slant of my collection influence what areas of the Philippines will be displayed.

17th November 2005, 06:58 PM	#16
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	How long will the swords be gone? I have a couple that can not be replaced, how will insurance work for something like that. I have about 200 PI swords, most that are just average pieces. Group pics would be a good thing, as I'm not sure exactly what is being sought. Then better pics of what may of interest. Would it complicate posting group pics here? I have several old barungs; by themselves, they are average. But one may fit in nicely if there were a time table of the barung; the same might be said about any type of PI sword. I have 4 barungs with what appears to be Chinese characters, are they of interest. I have a few pieces that seem to be from the PI, but I am not sure. I've posted a lot of pics on the forum, is there a particular sword that might be of interest?

17th November 2005, 08:01 PM	#17
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Hi Guys , I'm simply a participant and helper here ; I do not expect to (nor should I) be on the final selection committee . I hope that if any of my descriptions are incorrect someone will step up and help to rectify the situation . Bill I am sending a few irreplacable pieces myself ; I believe in the Museum and I believe that FEDEX will do a proper job in returning your pieces . I guess that what this all boils down to is having trust in the process . I will continue to add to my Moro selection ; and when you look at the nature of these pieces each unique in their own way you could say that they're ALL irreplacable .

17th November 2005, 09:45 PM	#18
ibeam Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 134	Collection Contribution Hello All, I just got Rick's PM yesterday and would be glad to loan a few pieces to the Museum. Like Federico mentioned, moro swords will be well covered so I would like to contribute on the other areas. I have a few Luzon bolos (katipunan era pieces) and also a few Visayan bolos (tenegre, sanduko, banangong, and such). Now where and who do I send pics?? Regards, Jonathan

17th November 2005, 10:06 PM	#19
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	To answer as many of these questions as I can from my own experience and understanding (and I guess preference as far as the forum itself goes). Threads: As many as you need. I know Antonio suggested otherwise, but I AM IN CONTROL!!!!! (mua ha ha ha ha ....). Seriously, my thinking is that a few, focused threads on specific topics is better than mushy threads that sort of cover everything. In this way, everyone can go right to the topic in order to ask or get answered any question they have without have to search through a long string of posts in one huge thread. I will start a few that I think might be useful, and we can decide if it works or not. Photos: You don't have to photograph your entire collection. The first thing I did was look through my collection and physically pull out and put aside the pieces that I thought were nice and would be good for the section. Then to the extent I didn't have some picture of it already, I took a quick photo. It doesn't have to be a Picasso or Pulitzer Prize caliber picture, but something clear enough to let the other's see what it is & how it looks. The high quality pictures for the catalogue will be taken by the Museum once the final pieces arrive in Macao. Time away from home: I am allowing six months in my own mind, between the time before the show for processing, the three months exhibition itself, and some time to pack up and ship back after the show. Antonio I am sure will give a better answer than that, though. Decision making: That is most of what will be done here on the Forum. I have no idea personally about what to put in and what not to, but I can help with suggestions just based on what I know of the exhibition hall layout (which I have seen in person), and what I have learned while doing my own section. I have already given a few just about sort of the mental approach you should all take. I do highly recommend that one or two people make the first broad cut once everything is on the table. What I did at first was to take everything we had and group stuff by similarity, literally moving photos around in a PowerPoint file. Then we looked them over and decided which best showed a particular style or feature or historic period. It also helped us notice gaps. So maybe one person at first can sit and take all the barongs offered and put them together, all the kris, etc. I did this by printing out the pictures from our working page and laying them out on the floor in stacks, then going back and re-grouping the pictures on the computer. We had fewer pieces than you do, but I suggest organizing them in groups as a list with their ID numbers, and forwarding that to Antonio and I, who will then physically group them on the web (assuming that is what you all want). Posting some pictures here as suggestions by whoever does this first step is a good idea, as well as posting representatives of the proposed groups. Whatever you think will work, and we can adjust as we go along. Irreplacable pieces Rick said it all. Everything in this exhibition will be irreplaceable, either literally or sentimentally. We do need to have a certain level of trust in the process. There are things that are priceless to the point where placing an insurance value on them, no matter how high, is meaningless. I have said many times that based on direct personal interviews and inspections of the Museum operations & facilities, that Antonio, the Museum, and the Museum staff have my 100% confidence in every respect. Of course, that opinion is worth as much as my credibility is with you, but I hope I have at least a little. If you don't know, I am a 42 year-old lawyer who has not only lived abroad, but have had my share of getting screwed, this in addition to spending 12+ years litigating against other wily lawyers, which sharpens your BS detecter, your paranoia, and your ability not to be taken for a ride. So, I know what to look for and what to look out for. I hope this helps. I am sure others have more to add. I'll go start some basic threads, now.

18th November 2005, 01:41 PM	#24
Antonio Cejunior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 294	Contributors swords updated Hi everyone, Federico has authorized me to update the contributors page with his early entries. Please go here to see the new updates. Please do not forget to click Refresh in your browser. I will also change the inches measurements into metric and plead with everyone contributing to make the measurements in centimeters. We now have 18 items. Like I said before, please everyone, do not let yourselves be confined to the 35 items at this stage. We are building an exhibition. Most exhibitions are presented from one Museum to another or one single collection. It is not our case and the challenge of creating it in a most constructive and mature way is what is making this project really unique. Thank you

24th November 2005, 10:39 AM	#25
Antonio Cejunior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 294	NICE NUMBER OF ENTRIES NOVEMBER 24 Hi everyone, We have reached a very encouraging number of entries. Please check here and we're still waiting for Vandoo's entries. I think that once everyone send me their entries as descriptions, we will be able to start the selection process and discuss it. Let's wait until the end of the month? November 30? This is great work. Very best to all, Antonio

27th November 2005, 12:52 AM	#26
Antonio Cejunior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 294	Amazing number of entries Hi Gentlemen, Just thought I would chime in. Until now, the entries list has reached a record of 76, soon to be 78 as I mistakenly thought two items were repetitions. This is really amazing. Please take a good look at the link's contents. I now there are more to come. Bless you all.

27th November 2005, 02:03 AM	#27
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	Boy do I feel stupid - I just now re-read this thread and saw your suggestion for me to coordinate and select the collectors part. Catching on slowly but surely.

30th November 2005, 12:20 AM	#29
Antonio Cejunior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 294	PHOTOGRAPHIC TUTORIAL Good morning everyone, In view of the need to ensure that pictures on the list are very clear I took the liberty of making a Swords Photography Tutorial in case any of our generous contributors have any difficulty with getting things right. I will now only upload photographs that carry enough quality and clearness as the pictures will be all the Museum will have for showing the Insurance Company therefore it is on your own interest. Please don't take me wrong or misunderstand me. The group has been nothing but FANTASTIC and GENEROUS but I really want to be sure things are very clear and beyond doubt. I hope the tutorial is usable by some of you gentlemen and in no way intends to be more than a way to assist any contributor which has had difficulties taking pictures with a white background. Best regards to you all Antonio

8th December 2005, 01:51 PM	#30
Antonio Cejunior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Macau Posts: 294	UPDATED LIST OF ENTRIES Greetings everyone, I have updated the entries list in terms of weapons information. Please check here http://www.arscives.com/historysteel...ntributors.htm and click refresh. So far I have included 119 entries. Please bear in mind I have received more pictures, some of them in a state that cannot be uploaded due to very confusing and not good for Insurance. Some other pictures I have received with very scarce or no information and I am a bit disoriented. I will not name names, for all are very kind and more than generous in contributing, but please update your pictures and your swords list. Thank you all. Antonio