Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 30th March 2011, 09:54 PM   #1
Spiridonov
Member
 
Spiridonov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Russia, Leningrad
Posts: 355
Default Handgonners from spanish tapestry

These spanish tapestry was made from 1472 to 1480 year. the images of handgonners were founded in this album: https://picasaweb.google.com/geoffre...eriesDEspagne#
Attached Images
      
Spiridonov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2011, 09:55 PM   #2
Spiridonov
Member
 
Spiridonov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Russia, Leningrad
Posts: 355
Default

else:
Attached Images
      
Spiridonov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2011, 10:10 PM   #3
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Another great find, Alexander, thank you!

Best,
Michael
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2011, 10:10 PM   #4
Spiridonov
Member
 
Spiridonov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Russia, Leningrad
Posts: 355
Default

and the most interesting images:
A. clef
B. probably lockplate
C. serpentine
D. piece of tinder
F. looks like pan but I think that this is a touch hole turned to the right side.
Attached Images
     
Spiridonov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2011, 10:01 AM   #5
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Hi Alexander,

You know I do not believe in complete lock plates before ca. 1500. To me, these illustrations rather seem to picture single divided lock parts like a serpentine spring just nailed or clamped to the right side of the stock!

I am attaching the famous snap matchlock gun of the Emperor Maximilian I and another two two ca. 1500 guns preserved in the Royal Armouries Leeds, one of which features exactly the same relic spring, the other having lost all its other 'lock' parts except for the brass clamps!

Please remember all these were preliminary stages prior to the combining lockplate, and that's exactly why I tend to date Martin Merz's drawing to ca. 1500.

Best,
Michael
Attached Images
      
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2011, 06:13 PM   #6
Spiridonov
Member
 
Spiridonov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Russia, Leningrad
Posts: 355
Default

Thanks for comment. Michael, what do You think about type of this mechanism? I had never seen that before
Spiridonov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2011, 08:56 PM   #7
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Sadly not one single gun with a complete mechanism of this kind seems to have survived. On the gun in the Royal Armouries Leeds at least the spring of the serpentine is still there. On a similar arquebus in the Vienna collection, stocked for a left handed shooter, the tender tinder serpentine has been replaced in the correct way. So this item conveys a good impression of what these mechanisms looked like.

Best,
Michael
Attached Images
   
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2011, 09:48 PM   #8
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Red face Spanish ... not really

If you read the (French) labels in the link, you will notice that these tapestries were woven to illustrate Portuguese King Dom Afonso V landing, siege and take over of North African cities of Arzila and Tangiers in 1471.
It was he who ordered these four huge tapestries (each 4x11 meters) from the Flemish workshops of Tournai, where they were wooven in wool and silk. Having probably arrived in Portugal already by the realm of King Dom João II (1481 ...), a few decades after they were made, in 1532, they surprisingly appeared in Spain, in the estate inventory of the Dukes do Infantado.
How they ended up in Spain, is a mistery for which, until today, historians have found no answer. What is known is that they were inherited by the said Dukes, who later offered them to the Colegiada of Pastrana (Gualadajara) where they still are, in the local Parish church.
During the Portuguese Ditactorship, Prime Minister Salazar tried to recuperate them, withou success. As an alternative, in 1930, it was arranged for a set of copies to be made, being exhibited until today in the Palace of the Dukes de Bragança, in the city of Guimarães.

.
Attached Images
 
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2011, 10:08 PM   #9
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Also present in the Pastrana tapestries we have the artillery, an important timeline mark.
...From the cover of a little publication i have on Portuguese artillery
.
Attached Images
 
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2011, 10:26 PM   #10
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Thank you, 'Nando, for putting this right!

Of course these tapestries were woven in one of the famos Tournai workshops, like many others which today are preserved in museums. For at least as late as the 1540's (Charles V), those martial topics were transferred to pictorial tapestries - posters and advertising pillars had not yet been invented!

Best,
Michl
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2011, 10:44 PM   #11
fernando
(deceased)
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matchlock
...those martial topics were transferred to pictorial tapestries - posters and advertising pillars had not yet been invented!
Amazing remark .
The article from where i took some data to support my post, quotes:
... Dom Afonso V couldn't take with him any image reporters. There was no direct coverings or live coments made by journalists in front of TV cameras;
reason why he ordered the tapestries
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2011, 10:53 PM   #12
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Exactly, and so did other Late Gothic and Early Renaissance warlords.

These tapestries were nothing but woven war reports.

Best,
Michl
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd April 2011, 09:38 PM   #13
Spiridonov
Member
 
Spiridonov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Russia, Leningrad
Posts: 355
Default

A think that "A" possibly is not lever (clef) and is not a part of this hangonne. May be it something on the body of the man. In this case details "B" and "C" may be just a one simple holder for a tinder which is fixed on a stock by nail. It looks like sistem of Giorgi Martini. I think that hangonner had to push on side "B" by thumb to turn it around the nail. In all case we don't know exactly
p/s
I have made mistake. It is not spanish tapestry but portuguese tapestry
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Spiridonov; 4th April 2011 at 10:19 AM.
Spiridonov is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.