Genoise blade

Kubur · 11th February 2017, 11:14 AM

Hi Guys
Do you know where i can find good information's or good threads about Genoise / Italian sword blades or their copies?
Thank you
Kubur

Jim McDougall · 13th February 2017, 12:03 AM

That is a very broad subject, and of course using search function a lot of information concerning 'Genoan' blades can be found here, but it would help to narrow to what specifically you are looking for.
Like most trade blade centers, there was so much spurious use of such names, markings, inscriptions on blades over centuries it becomes almost unfathomable to cover all aspects of what comprises 'Genoan' blades.

It is believed that Genoa was primarily a departure port in which the blades of numbers of North Italian blades were collectively exported into their trade routes and often colonies. The famed 'sickle marks' typically believed to signify the blades of Genoa actually were often emplaced on those of other North Italian cities with various makers as well as configurations.

These marks became used by other centers spuriously such as those in Styria as well as later Solingen, and in the Caucusus (known as Gurda).
They often occurred with the name 'GENOA' as well as 'FRINGIA' and others, further reinforcing the Genoan notion for sickle marks.

One of the best references for Italian edged weapons is the huge "Armi Bianche Italiene", Boccia & Coelho, 1975, Florence. In Italian but with fantastic photos and compendium of markings etc

Beyond these, it is best to use online search functions to specific makers names and look through auction catalogs often published online.
As for copies, if you refer to the many imitations of such blades from many trade blade centers, no such specific data exists and is researched on individual case.
Modern reproductions as far as I know present by form, not by blade, and Genoa had no particular style of blade particular to that City/State.

Kubur · 13th February 2017, 10:05 AM

Thank you very much Jim, this is very much appreciated!
So the spelling was GENOA and not GENOISE?
The Gurda blades in Caucasus were exported to India?
I got a lot of answers but also a lot of questions on this forum.
It's not always very simple or clear.

Jim McDougall · 13th February 2017, 05:51 PM

You are very welcome Kubur, and I'm glad to be of help.
It is indeed very confusing in these matters, and the fact that these blades not only diffused widely over long periods, but the term 'Genoan' or 'Genoese' became more of a 'brand' than actual form .

Actually the Caucasian blades were like many others, widely traded.
Yes, these blades (typically Chechen) often showed up in not only India, but Arabia, North Africa and many other ports of call and trade entrepots.
This was primarily due to the magnitude of Arab trade, which often coupled with the vast trade networks of Genoa and Venice.

I would note that in North Africa, the term 'janwi' or varied into genouii and others is a reference used loosely to allude to the blades with high quality and often from 'Genoa' (more broadly Italy).

Naturally, like with the blades of Toledo, Solingen began capitalizing on the fame of various makers and blades of Italy, thus further clouding the identity of these.

Again, I will be happy to try to help with any specifics.
Excellent question,

All best regards
Jim

11th February 2017, 11:14 AM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Genoise blade Hi Guys Do you know where i can find good information's or good threads about Genoise / Italian sword blades or their copies? Thank you Kubur

13th February 2017, 12:03 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,952	That is a very broad subject, and of course using search function a lot of information concerning 'Genoan' blades can be found here, but it would help to narrow to what specifically you are looking for. Like most trade blade centers, there was so much spurious use of such names, markings, inscriptions on blades over centuries it becomes almost unfathomable to cover all aspects of what comprises 'Genoan' blades. It is believed that Genoa was primarily a departure port in which the blades of numbers of North Italian blades were collectively exported into their trade routes and often colonies. The famed 'sickle marks' typically believed to signify the blades of Genoa actually were often emplaced on those of other North Italian cities with various makers as well as configurations. These marks became used by other centers spuriously such as those in Styria as well as later Solingen, and in the Caucusus (known as Gurda). They often occurred with the name 'GENOA' as well as 'FRINGIA' and others, further reinforcing the Genoan notion for sickle marks. One of the best references for Italian edged weapons is the huge "Armi Bianche Italiene", Boccia & Coelho, 1975, Florence. In Italian but with fantastic photos and compendium of markings etc Beyond these, it is best to use online search functions to specific makers names and look through auction catalogs often published online. As for copies, if you refer to the many imitations of such blades from many trade blade centers, no such specific data exists and is researched on individual case. Modern reproductions as far as I know present by form, not by blade, and Genoa had no particular style of blade particular to that City/State.

13th February 2017, 10:05 AM	#3
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Thank you very much Jim, this is very much appreciated! So the spelling was GENOA and not GENOISE? The Gurda blades in Caucasus were exported to India? I got a lot of answers but also a lot of questions on this forum. It's not always very simple or clear.

13th February 2017, 05:51 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,952	You are very welcome Kubur, and I'm glad to be of help. It is indeed very confusing in these matters, and the fact that these blades not only diffused widely over long periods, but the term 'Genoan' or 'Genoese' became more of a 'brand' than actual form . Actually the Caucasian blades were like many others, widely traded. Yes, these blades (typically Chechen) often showed up in not only India, but Arabia, North Africa and many other ports of call and trade entrepots. This was primarily due to the magnitude of Arab trade, which often coupled with the vast trade networks of Genoa and Venice. I would note that in North Africa, the term 'janwi' or varied into genouii and others is a reference used loosely to allude to the blades with high quality and often from 'Genoa' (more broadly Italy). Naturally, like with the blades of Toledo, Solingen began capitalizing on the fame of various makers and blades of Italy, thus further clouding the identity of these. Again, I will be happy to try to help with any specifics. Excellent question, All best regards Jim