Unusual Philippine Knife ?

[drac2k]

This is a form that I haven't encountered before. It is allegedly a WW2 Philippine bring back. I'm not sure if it is an actual style, a custom job, or a worn or broken bolo repurposed.
It has a heavy blade that is razor sharp, 11" long,2.75" at its widest and 1/4" thick at the bases of the spine. The handle measures 6.75" long.
Has anyone seen a similar example?

[Ian]

Hi Drac:

This is an unusual blade form but one which appears every now and again in online auctions. I would not call it rare, but certainly uncommon. There are elements of Ilocano style in the hilt (multifaceted brass ferrule; hilt shape; stamped initials at forte), but it might also come from one of the several other ethnic groups in the Central Luzon/Metro Manila area. Probably mid-20th C in manufacture.

I have been told that this is a type of butcher's knife, but my source was not particularly well informed about Filipino knives, so I don't know how accurate that information may be.

Ian.

[drac2k]

Thanks for the information. I almost posted that it felt like a meat cleaver so your friend might be more correct than you thought.

[Battara]

I admit I have seen this before from a friend and former forumite (RIP). Yeah Filipino, but beyond that.............

[Rafngard]

Hello All,

I'm not sure how helpful it is, but the shape of the hilt reminds me of a lot of the hilts you see on bolos from Apalit.

In fact, it's almost identical to one Ian presented in post # 32 on this thread.

http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=226178

Thanks,
Leif

[Ian]

Leif:

Spot on -- the same indeed! I had forgotten about my example with the sheath in that older thread. From Apalit in the Province of Pampanga in Central Luzon.

As we talk more about the similarities in style among knives from various groups in Central Luzon, it is interesting to note that the sheath on my example that you linked to is similar to leather sheaths on knives that are more typical of an Ilokano style.

Perhaps we are coming to a point where we need to speak of a regional attribution, "Central Luzon," with sub-groups related to specific towns or ethnic groups. Fernando and Jose have noted that not all of the knives we assign an Ilokano style were necessarily made by Ilokanos, and that some melding of styles among ethnic groups is likely to have occurred. Without more specific information about the knifemakers of Pampanga and nearby areas, it will be difficult to sort out some of these sub-groups.

If we are looking at probabilities, it is important to remember that Ilokanos make up the third largest ethnic group in the Philippines (after Tagalogs and Visayans) and that most of them live in Central and Northern Luzon. Because Ilokanos probably outnumber all other ethnic groups collectively in the region, it is likely that most of the Ilokano style knives that we see were indeed made by Ilokanos. However, that observation does not help very much when trying to assign a particular maker to a specific knife.

Ian

[Rafngard]

Hello Ian,

Two things.

Originally Posted by Ian

As we talk more about the similarities in style among knives from various groups in Central Luzon, it is interesting to note that the sheath on my example that you linked to is similar to leather sheaths on knives that are more typical of an Ilokano style.

Firstly:
I didn't notice it until just now, but the design (I'm not sure if "okir" is an
appropriate word in a Luzon context) on the throat of the sheath is near identical to the design on the sheathes of two Luzon blades that I have, a tabak and a matulis, previously presented the last picture here. Has anyone done much of a study on these designs?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...96&postcount=4

Originally Posted by Ian

Perhaps we are coming to a point where we need to speak of a regional attribution, "Central Luzon," with sub-groups related to specific towns or ethnic groups. Fernando and Jose have noted that not all of the knives we assign an Ilokano style were necessarily made by Ilokanos, and that some melding of styles among ethnic groups is likely to have occurred. Without more specific information about the knifemakers of Pampanga and nearby areas, it will be difficult to sort out some of these sub-groups.

I wonder if perhaps in the context of Central Luzon, we should focus more on "style" than on origin (or attribution). The idea of a "Ilokano style" might be useful, and if, some fortunate day, we have a data set large enough, and well attributed enough, to identify a Pampangueño interpretation (or variation, or sub-style, etc.) of the "Ilokano style," then we can focus on such thing. But with the data set we have now...

I don't know. Just a thought.

Have fun regardless,
Leif

[drac2k]

Wow, you guys nailed it; my blade has a twin brother! Rafngard thanks for the pictures.
As an afterthought, I noticed that the other knife that was similar to mine had a scabbard ;this has been referred to as a "butcher knife."Is this butcher knife for field dressing of game, rather than in a kitchen ?

[Ian]

Originally Posted by drac2k

Wow, you guys nailed it; my blade has a twin brother! Rafngard thanks for the pictures.
As an afterthought, I noticed that the other knife that was similar to mine had a scabbard ;this has been referred to as a "butcher knife."Is this butcher knife for field dressing of game, rather than in a kitchen ?

I don't know the answer to your question, Drac. At a guess I would say it was used mainly by those who butchered meat for selling on to others and perhaps in restaurants, etc. where cutting large sections of meat would be common.

Ian.

[drac2k]

Thanks, Ian for your input. The only reasons why I thought it could be for a field dressing was because the other similar knife had a leather scabbard; I don't believe that most butcher knives have scabbards and the curved sharp point would be perfect for gutting an animal. Also, most kitchen cleavers have a straight edge.

[Ian]

Originally Posted by drac2k

Thanks, Ian for your input. The only reasons why I thought it could be for a field dressing was because the other similar knife had a leather scabbard; I don't believe that most butcher knives have scabbards and the curved sharp point would be perfect for gutting an animal. Also, most kitchen cleavers have a straight edge.

Good points Drac.

[blindside]

Originally Posted by drac2k

Wow, you guys nailed it; my blade has a twin brother!

Triplets!
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14613

[drac2k]

Welcome to the family!