Need help with a tulwar

[TVV]

I was attracted to this tulwar because of its narrow and very curved blade and I was able to get for a fairly low price.
I believe the blade is wootz. I am currently trying to bring out the pattern and going very slowly and carefully, using only diluted vinegar. My first questions is, should I try to polish the blade with very fine sandpaper, such as 1500+?
Also, I believe this tulwar has lost its original pommel, which has been rplaced by a rather heavy piece of steel. It looks out of place and ruins the balance of the sword, so I assume it must be a recent repair. I am therefore thinking of replacing the hilt. From what I have read, disattaching the hilt is possible by heating it. However, would the heating damage the wootz pattern in the base of the blade? Also, what can I use for reattaching the hilt? Could the old resins be reused, or should I try with epoxy?
Finally, I would be happy to get some comments on the tulwar itself, and perhaps place it to a certain area in India based on the hilt and the style of the blade.

Thank you all for your interest and replies,

Teodor

[Tim Simmons]

Batak sword? with add ons

[Atlantia]

Hi Teodor,

The handle appears to be exactly the same as is on my pair of tulwars discussed here.
Rather solid, nice quality bronze/brass I can take some closeups of the top if you want to see it clearer.

Nice sword BTW, looks like a very fine blade.

Regards
Gene

[ward]

heat the handle not the blade will be fine. then smack the handle with a 2x4 will come right off

[TVV]

Thank you for the responses.

Gene, I agree with you, the hilts on your tulwars are identical to the hilt on mine. Could you please take a photo and measurements of the pommel, so that I can try to use it in case I decide to have someone replicate it?

Thank you,

Teodor

[ward]

It will be cheaper and easier to replace the handle.It is not a good enough handle to bother to restore it. Handles were routinely changed out so no greet loose.

[TVV]

Originally Posted by ward

It will be cheaper and easier to replace the handle.It is not a good enough handle to bother to restore it. Handles were routinely changed out so no greet loose.

Thank you for your advice - I agree with you fully. I will leave it as is until I find a suitable handle for the replacement.

[Atlantia]

[ward]

regarding wootz do a test section start 400 the 800 1200 2400 then feric chloride use vinegar as last etch

[Atlantia]

I have to say i would keep the original hilt.
This is a fine 'fighting' sword.
Plenty of Tulwars were made primarily for 'form' rather than 'function' but this one was made to fight. The hilt is a type that you do see quite regularly, I'm sure one of the experts on Tulwar hilt styles can tell us if there is any specific area or period for these, but they are beautiful in their simplicity. In fact it was one fo the things that attracted me to my pair. they have a solid feel to the hilt, but with some elegance, and they polish up beautifully.
IMHO, the hilt is original, it deserves to stay.

[ward]

Cast pieces like thise one are generally late by the time you have a form made and have a multiple cast done you would be better off paying high retail for the piece. If it belonged to your great grandfather that would be one thing but this is not the case. When restoring a piece if the cost are way over a full retail price it is foolish. I have learned hard leasons from my mistakes.

[ariel]

I agree with Ward.
Brass handle, in my mind, is likely to be a late addition. Moreover, the upper disk was lost or removed, and then replaced with newly-made metal disks. Not much value in it.
The blade is wootz, no doubt, and makes it quite attractive. I would polish it with sandpaper and etch it, but not remove the handle. One day you will find a good replacement handle and get yourself a first-rate weapon. The scabbard is another story...

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by ward

Cast pieces like thise one are generally late by the time you have a form made and have a multiple cast done you would be better off paying high retail for the piece. If it belonged to your great grandfather that would be one thing but this is not the case. When restoring a piece if the cost are way over a full retail price it is foolish. I have learned hard leasons from my mistakes.

Hi Ward,

As an alternative POV. These cast hilts are traditional and there is no evidence to suggest that this is not the original hilt to the sword. As an original piece it should be preserved not discarded.
Re-making the disk and 'bell' shaped pommel which are separate on mine, is a simple manufacturing task for any DIY fan, as they are not cast like the two hilt halves, and in fact if cast at all were heavily and roughly 'worked' afterwards meaning that simple replacements made with hand tools would be indistinguishable.
Without taking the 'bell' off of one of mine I cant say for sure if its roughly cast then worked or just cut from a lump, but for sure these 'are' the simple parts of the hilt and would be dead easy toi make, and re-polishing and etching the blade is a lot more work than remaking a couple of bits of brass.

If it were mine, I'd keep it as original as possible. Restoration isn't about whats cheapest. If you take this sword and recut the blade then re-etch it, then put a new handle with new resin in it on it.....
Well, is that restoration?

Just my opinion. Its all up to Teodore of course.

Regards
Gene

[Atlantia]

Clearly Ward and I are flipsides of the coin on this one, but Ariel has a good point!
Restrore the blade then decide what to do with the hilt.

[TVV]

Gene, thank you very much for the pictures and measurements. It is exactly what I would need if I decide to have the pommel restored.
The questions is, is the hilt currently on the original one? This tulwar does not strike me as a fighting one - not only because it is made of wootz but also because it is narrow and looks like it cannot be used to parry blows. Even if one assumes that a dhal was used for parrying, it still looks a little, how should I call it, flimsy . Could it be possible that this is an older blade, which was preserved thanks to its presumed quality (made of wootz) and later married to its current hilt in an arsenal?
We may never know, but if this is the case, then attaching another old hilt to this blade will not detract too much from its historical value. I will love to hear other opinions, and for now will leave the hilt as is, steel replacement pommel included, and will reconsider changing it if the right hilt ever becomes available. I do not want a new coftgaried hilt, as beautiful as they are.

Ward, thank you for the advice on polishing, I will follow your advice on polishing and if I have success, I will report my results back here.

Regards,
Teodor

Edit: Ariel,
Just saw your post. It makes perfect sense. Thank you.

[ward]

Sorry my time on restorations gets more valuable the older I get. If I like the piece a lot I will do it otherwise it goes out the door. I personally like the blade you have and have little use for the handle. I guess I am jaded. The Indians did much better work and cast items are just not my thing.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by ward

Sorry my time on restorations gets more valuable the older I get. If I like the piece a lot I will do it otherwise it goes out the door. I personally like the blade you have and have little use for the handle. I guess I am jaded. The Indians did much better work and cast items are just not my thing.

Thats because you have a collection that would make most museum curators cry. Its no wonder you have to ration restoration time.
If you were to donate the better half of your collection to me, then you could devote more time to restoring anything that was needed on the remainder!

;-)

[ward]

thank you for the compliment. This is my retirement fund and in the not to distant future will be up for sale. Inshallah