Akar Bahar Hilts

Rick · 3rd August 2009, 04:55 PM

I noticed that one has recently sold in Swap .

I was wondering if any of our members had other examples of this material to show ?

I have some raw pieces of this material; not enough for a hilt, but I find it fascinating to view; so black it seems it almost absorbs light .

Anyone ?

asomotif · 3rd August 2009, 11:27 PM

This one was Akar Bahar :

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=bahar

Best regards,
Willem

Rick · 6th August 2009, 03:01 AM

Thanks Willem .

No one else ..................... ?!?

No other comments ?

Battara · 6th August 2009, 03:50 AM

I saw a rencong hilt once made of this stuff. It is fascinating material. Very rare.

Amuk Murugul · 6th August 2009, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

....
No one else ..................... ?!?

No other comments ?

Hullo Rick,

Since you asked so nicely....

Oerang Soenda warriors traditionally use Akar Bahar arm-bands. Here is one of mine.(Apologies for the bad pic; it was a snap decision

)

Best,

A. G. Maisey · 6th August 2009, 04:42 AM

This sort of bracelet/armband was very popular and prolific in Bali from the early 1970's on. You still see a few in the tourist traps, but quality now is not as good as it used to be.

A. G. Maisey · 6th August 2009, 05:21 AM

Here are a couple of examples of the same material, but different colours.

Black speckled and red; both made as conventional type knife hilts, fittings silver, the stone set in the pommel of the speckled one is a black star.

I've got damascus blades made for these but haven't yet had time to heat treat them.

Actually, when I throw my mind back, these were not made for conventional knives, they were made for those little Bali ceremonial axes, but I decided I'd like to use them as damascus handles.

BluErf · 6th August 2009, 03:28 PM

I have seen a Terengganu pipit teleng hilt made from black coral. It's a good sized hilt, beautifully carved, and almost all black with minimal specks and sand pits. It was brightly polished and reflects light like polished black marble.

Unfortunately, it was not for sale.

This material is devilishly hard to carve and polish. Sorry, no pictures to share...

Dave has a good sized kerdas hilt on a Bugis naga keris.

BluErf · 6th August 2009, 03:30 PM

Also, I hear that there is so much salt in these hilts that the peksi will corrode very quickly if it is not protected. So some people place a copper pipe over the peksi before attaching the hilt.

Rick · 6th August 2009, 03:30 PM

Thank you all .

I hope to see more examples .

Amuk, I think I have seen these bracelets/armbands originating from Jamaica also , now that you have shown an example .

Kai Wee, it is indeed the very devil to carve ; files seem to work best on it 'cause it tends to chip easily .
Polishes like a dream though .

I was unaware that this stuff could be bent into armbands .
Fascinating how it grows with rings like a tree .

Marcokeris · 9th August 2009, 10:08 AM

Some pics about this kind of hits.
(only one, Ganesha hit, is really very well made)

Sajen · 9th August 2009, 10:41 AM

Wow, Marco you are a very lucky man to have three hilts from this material, all three are very nice.

sajen

Gustav · 9th August 2009, 12:32 PM

They all are very beautiful, Marcoceris.

The first one reminds me of some archaical hilts. Is it probably the oldest one of these? The second has (for me) the most beautiful material, each detailed carving would disperse the attention for it.

Rick · 9th August 2009, 02:52 PM

Marco, you made my day .

Thanks so much .
Rick

VANDOO · 12th August 2009, 06:21 AM

THIS MATERIAL WAS DISCUSSED IN AN OLD POST BY LEE JONES 6,22,2001 TITELED (INFORMATION SOUGHT ON SINGHALESE PHIA KAETTA). YOU MIGHT FIND THE INFORMATION THERE OF USE IN THIS CURRENT DISCUSSION. THE NAME USED FOR THE AKAR BAHAR IS BLACK CORAL. I WOULD ATTACH IT FOR EASE OF ACCESS BUT DON'T KNOW HOW SO A SEARCH OF THE ARCHIVES WILL BRING IT UP.
BEAUTIFUL EXAMPLES YOU ALL HAVE CONGRADULATIONS.

Greybeard · 14th August 2009, 07:29 AM

All coral hilts discussed and shown here are black. Recently I bought a keris with a hilt that is -- according to the seller -- made of white coral. This material is very heavy and looks like marble with some tiny black impurities in it. The hilt is simply but nicely carved in a deman style. I wonder if the black and the white coral are essentially the same (except for the color, of course).

Heinz

Sajen · 14th August 2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greybeard

All coral hilts discussed and shown here are black. Recently I bought a keris with a hilt that is -- according to the seller -- made of white coral. This material is very heavy and looks like marble with some tiny black impurities in it. The hilt is simply but nicely carved in a deman style. I wonder if the black and the white coral are essentially the same (except for the color, of course).

Heinz

Hello Heinz,

you can show us a picture from this hilt?

regards,

Detlef

Greybeard · 14th August 2009, 09:37 AM

Dear Detlef

Thank you for your interest in my hilt. Sorry, but for some technical reason I still cannot post pictures.

Regards,

Heinz

Alam Shah · 14th August 2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greybeard

All coral hilts discussed and shown here are black. Recently I bought a keris with a hilt that is -- according to the seller -- made of white coral. This material is very heavy and looks like marble with some tiny black impurities in it. The hilt is simply but nicely carved in a deman style. I wonder if the black and the white coral are essentially the same (except for the color, of course).

Heinz

Perhaps you're referring to Kemoh (Tridacna).. (( link ))
See the pictures from the link.. is that what you're referring to?

Greybeard · 14th August 2009, 01:47 PM

Hello Alam Shah

I think you are right. When looking at the pictures from the link you provided, I do indeed realize much similarity between those hilts and my hilt, with the tiny dark spots in the material being nearly identical. The heavy weight seems to be typical of tridacna hilts as well.

Well, as it appears I own a (very expensive!) tridacna hilt instead of a coral hilt! Anyway, it looks nice ...

Regards,

Heinz

Alam Shah · 14th August 2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greybeard

... Well, as it appears I own a (very expensive!) tridacna hilt instead of a coral hilt! Anyway, it looks nice ...

Well, congrats would be in order then, Heinz..

expensive, rare and fragile too.. so do take care..

Greybeard · 14th August 2009, 03:26 PM

Thank you, Alam Shah.

By the way, there`s a very interesting post in this thread by BluErf regarding high salt content in coral hilts. Is this true of tridacna hilts as well? So far the pesi of my keris is free of corrosion/rust and well oiled ...

Regards,

Heinz

Sajen · 14th August 2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greybeard

Thank you, Alam Shah.

By the way, there`s a very interesting post in this thread by BluErf regarding high salt content in coral hilts. Is this true of tridacna hilts as well? So far the pesi of my keris is free of corrosion/rust and well oiled ...

Regards,

Heinz

Hello Heinz,

I also thought that you have a Tridacna hilt, this have been the reason why I want to see a picture.
Normally it isn't a problem to give a keris a Tridacna hilt, special not in our climate.

Best,

Detlef

kulbuntet · 15th August 2009, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Here are a couple of examples of the same material, but different colours.

Black speckled and red; both made as conventional type knife hilts, fittings silver, the stone set in the pommel of the speckled one is a black star.

I've got damascus blades made for these but haven't yet had time to heat treat them.

Actually, when I throw my mind back, these were not made for conventional knives, they were made for those little Bali ceremonial axes, but I decided I'd like to use them as damascus handles.

Alan,

The ceremonial Axes you mean are the sort of Balinese Wedung?

As you can see, the grip is a bit like yours. But missing the top and bottom mounts. Anny idea for resaurations appriciated! Also missing a propper sheath.

Greybeard · 17th August 2009, 07:04 AM

Thank you, Detlef. In this case I can leave the tridacna hilt on my keris (a very nice old 13-luk Mataram Senopaten blade, by the way) without risking corrosion of the pesi. Actually, I intended to replace the tridacna hilt with a common wooden planar hilt and put the tridacna hilt on display ...

Best regards,

Heinz

A. G. Maisey · 17th August 2009, 07:35 AM

No Michele, not that, although I guess it could also be used on one of those, but those wedung-like things --- from memory I think they're called pengantas --- are pretty rare. Here's a pic of the type of axe that you see nearly all Balinese men carrying during ceremonies.

Sajen · 17th August 2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greybeard

Thank you, Detlef. In this case I can leave the tridacna hilt on my keris (a very nice old 13-luk Mataram Senopaten blade, by the way) without risking corrosion of the pesi. Actually, I intended to replace the tridacna hilt with a common wooden planar hilt and put the tridacna hilt on display ...

Best regards,

Heinz

Like it sounds this will be better, a Jawa Deman hilt isn't good for a javanese blade. Better for a Sumatra blade.

Regards,

Detlef

kulbuntet · 17th August 2009, 10:46 PM

Hi Alan,

please use the male form of my name, Michel its more easy, you dont have to type the e...lol ;-)

Thanks for posting the pic, i never have seen it before. I did not know the name of the wedung like weapon.. i did know there was a balinese name for it, but couldnt remember it. Do you have any idea of how the mount on the top should look like? The thing is, yes they are rare, once seen one, but much lowere quality than this one... and a sort of one, but not even to talk about quality in that one. So its realy difficult for me to find reference pics.. to get the thing complete.

regards

Michel

Edit/PS btw i realy like the blackisch one.. iff ever for sale, or have other one.. pls let me know

A. G. Maisey · 17th August 2009, 10:51 PM

Please accept my apologies Michel.

In my society your name is uncommon, not to say unknown, but the form I used is quite common, in fact we have a chain of cake shops, started by a man whom I knew perhaps 35 years ago, who spelt his name as I spelt yours in error.

I will try not to err again.

Alan.

kulbuntet · 18th August 2009, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Please accept my apologies Michel.

In my society your name is uncommon, not to say unknown, but the form I used is quite common, in fact we have a chain of cake shops, started by a man whom I knew perhaps 35 years ago, who spelt his name as I spelt yours in error.

I will try not to err again.

Alan.

No need for apologies, but accepted, anny way no offence taken. I already had the thought, about the use of my name in other languages... as far i know, only the Dutch, Belgians, French and maybe germans Use the name regular..

But for the showing of good meaning.. I can give you my adress to you to send me the nice blackisch/brownisch one

3rd August 2009, 04:55 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Akar Bahar Hilts I noticed that one has recently sold in Swap . I was wondering if any of our members had other examples of this material to show ? I have some raw pieces of this material; not enough for a hilt, but I find it fascinating to view; so black it seems it almost absorbs light . Anyone ? Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 3rd August 2009 at 05:13 PM.

6th August 2009, 05:21 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	Here are a couple of examples of the same material, but different colours. Black speckled and red; both made as conventional type knife hilts, fittings silver, the stone set in the pommel of the speckled one is a black star. I've got damascus blades made for these but haven't yet had time to heat treat them. Actually, when I throw my mind back, these were not made for conventional knives, they were made for those little Bali ceremonial axes, but I decided I'd like to use them as damascus handles. Attached Images

6th August 2009, 03:30 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Thank you all . I hope to see more examples . Amuk, I think I have seen these bracelets/armbands originating from Jamaica also , now that you have shown an example . Kai Wee, it is indeed the very devil to carve ; files seem to work best on it 'cause it tends to chip easily . Polishes like a dream though . I was unaware that this stuff could be bent into armbands . Fascinating how it grows with rings like a tree . Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 6th August 2009 at 03:48 PM.

9th August 2009, 10:08 AM	#11
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Some pics about this kind of hits. (only one, Ganesha hit, is really very well made) Attached Images

14th August 2009, 07:29 AM	#16
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	White "akar bahar"? All coral hilts discussed and shown here are black. Recently I bought a keris with a hilt that is -- according to the seller -- made of white coral. This material is very heavy and looks like marble with some tiny black impurities in it. The hilt is simply but nicely carved in a deman style. I wonder if the black and the white coral are essentially the same (except for the color, of course). Heinz

3rd August 2009, 11:27 PM	#2
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	This one was Akar Bahar : http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=bahar Best regards, Willem

6th August 2009, 03:01 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Thanks Willem . No one else ..................... ?!? No other comments ?

6th August 2009, 03:50 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,226	I saw a rencong hilt once made of this stuff. It is fascinating material. Very rare.

6th August 2009, 04:42 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	This sort of bracelet/armband was very popular and prolific in Bali from the early 1970's on. You still see a few in the tourist traps, but quality now is not as good as it used to be.

6th August 2009, 03:28 PM	#8
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I have seen a Terengganu pipit teleng hilt made from black coral. It's a good sized hilt, beautifully carved, and almost all black with minimal specks and sand pits. It was brightly polished and reflects light like polished black marble. Unfortunately, it was not for sale. This material is devilishly hard to carve and polish. Sorry, no pictures to share... Dave has a good sized kerdas hilt on a Bugis naga keris.

9th August 2009, 10:41 AM	#12
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Wow, Marco you are a very lucky man to have three hilts from this material, all three are very nice. sajen

9th August 2009, 12:32 PM	#13
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,249	They all are very beautiful, Marcoceris. The first one reminds me of some archaical hilts. Is it probably the oldest one of these? The second has (for me) the most beautiful material, each detailed carving would disperse the attention for it.

9th August 2009, 02:52 PM	#14
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Marco, you made my day . Thanks so much . Rick

12th August 2009, 06:21 AM	#15
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THIS MATERIAL WAS DISCUSSED IN AN OLD POST BY LEE JONES 6,22,2001 TITELED (INFORMATION SOUGHT ON SINGHALESE PHIA KAETTA). YOU MIGHT FIND THE INFORMATION THERE OF USE IN THIS CURRENT DISCUSSION. THE NAME USED FOR THE AKAR BAHAR IS BLACK CORAL. I WOULD ATTACH IT FOR EASE OF ACCESS BUT DON'T KNOW HOW SO A SEARCH OF THE ARCHIVES WILL BRING IT UP. BEAUTIFUL EXAMPLES YOU ALL HAVE CONGRADULATIONS.

14th August 2009, 09:37 AM	#18
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	Dear Detlef Thank you for your interest in my hilt. Sorry, but for some technical reason I still cannot post pictures. Regards, Heinz

14th August 2009, 01:47 PM	#20
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	Hello Alam Shah I think you are right. When looking at the pictures from the link you provided, I do indeed realize much similarity between those hilts and my hilt, with the tiny dark spots in the material being nearly identical. The heavy weight seems to be typical of tridacna hilts as well. Well, as it appears I own a (very expensive!) tridacna hilt instead of a coral hilt! Anyway, it looks nice ... Regards, Heinz

14th August 2009, 03:26 PM	#22
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	Thank you, Alam Shah. By the way, there`s a very interesting post in this thread by BluErf regarding high salt content in coral hilts. Is this true of tridacna hilts as well? So far the pesi of my keris is free of corrosion/rust and well oiled ... Regards, Heinz

17th August 2009, 07:04 AM	#25
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	Thank you, Detlef. In this case I can leave the tridacna hilt on my keris (a very nice old 13-luk Mataram Senopaten blade, by the way) without risking corrosion of the pesi. Actually, I intended to replace the tridacna hilt with a common wooden planar hilt and put the tridacna hilt on display ... Best regards, Heinz

17th August 2009, 07:35 AM	#26
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	No Michele, not that, although I guess it could also be used on one of those, but those wedung-like things --- from memory I think they're called pengantas --- are pretty rare. Here's a pic of the type of axe that you see nearly all Balinese men carrying during ceremonies. Attached Images

17th August 2009, 10:46 PM	#28
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	Hi Alan, please use the male form of my name, Michel its more easy, you dont have to type the e...lol ;-) Thanks for posting the pic, i never have seen it before. I did not know the name of the wedung like weapon.. i did know there was a balinese name for it, but couldnt remember it. Do you have any idea of how the mount on the top should look like? The thing is, yes they are rare, once seen one, but much lowere quality than this one... and a sort of one, but not even to talk about quality in that one. So its realy difficult for me to find reference pics.. to get the thing complete. regards Michel Edit/PS btw i realy like the blackisch one.. iff ever for sale, or have other one.. pls let me know

17th August 2009, 10:51 PM	#29
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	Please accept my apologies Michel. In my society your name is uncommon, not to say unknown, but the form I used is quite common, in fact we have a chain of cake shops, started by a man whom I knew perhaps 35 years ago, who spelt his name as I spelt yours in error. I will try not to err again. Alan.