Kindjal

ariel · 30th January 2005, 06:50 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

I do not think it is Caucasian at all: looks eerily Indo-Persian.
What do you think about the state of preservation of gold koftgari?

Andrew · 30th January 2005, 07:34 PM

I think this is newly made. I've seen a fair number of similar, beautiful knives and swords in typically Indian styles with pattern-welded blades. This style looks Persian to my inexperienced eye.

Rivkin · 30th January 2005, 08:17 PM

I'm not an expert but it looks indian to me. There is a number of companies in India today making "caucasian kindjals" as they call them, for example:
[DELETED BY MODERATOR]

Sincerely yours,

K.Rivkin

Yannis · 30th January 2005, 10:57 PM

Dear Rivkin

You mention an open auction

I dont think that are both of indian origin. Sure the first one looks new but it maybe excelent preserved.

If there is no organic material in a sword that stays indoors with perfect care for 100 years, who we can tell it is new or antique.

I dont express opinion about the particular sword, but what is shining is not always (gold) or new

Rick · 30th January 2005, 11:06 PM

The fullering seems a little different .
The work is very nice .
The length of the forte seems unusual to me . .

erlikhan · 31st January 2005, 12:58 AM

i considered about it before the bidding ended, but i voted for the "new and made in India" side being almost sure. Koftgari is an industry there. They dont carve the blade deep and they make the gold thin, so easier than old, and with much cheaper costs.Plus, the blade seems a very nice example of factory made damascus to me. Also, if you look carefully, you can see that the blade is not sharp. It has thick sides, covered with koftgari. Wouldnt be so if was handmade, but seen very often in factory produced blades as its easier that way.
Finally, if it was antique with this condition, it should start from and go up to several thousand dollars easily.

ariel · 31st January 2005, 03:24 AM

I tried to be polite and nonoffensive in opening this query, but I had exactly the same hesitations as the rest of the Forumites. I am virtually convinced that it is a modern creation. Guess the rest of the e-bayers thought the same....

Yannis · 31st January 2005, 06:56 AM

After your opinions I checked it again more carefully.

The most suspicious part is the lower (black) part of hilt. It should have some marks of age, if it was antique, because it touches the scabbard.

The only exception I can imagine is that the owners last 100 years were not proud enough for it, to take it off and demonstrate it.

ksbhati · 31st January 2005, 05:04 PM

Hi !

Ariel always seems to find the interesting pieces

. I cant say for certain if this is a modern piece but it most likely is. The only comment I wanted to leave is that it is most definately a work of very skilled craftsman. I have seen very few with this degree of quality work.

All the same, maybe it seems a bit expensive at GBP 400 but it must have costed a fair amount to produce. Good quality workmanship is not cheap here the regular stuff is....

!!

Regards,

Karni

Battara · 31st January 2005, 11:39 PM

Oh yeah, I agree, newly made, though the koftgari is nicely done. Notice not a sign of wear anywhere (a poet and didn't know it

).

30th January 2005, 06:50 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Kindjal http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT I do not think it is Caucasian at all: looks eerily Indo-Persian. What do you think about the state of preservation of gold koftgari?

30th January 2005, 08:17 PM	#3
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	I'm not an expert but it looks indian to me. There is a number of companies in India today making "caucasian kindjals" as they call them, for example: [DELETED BY MODERATOR] Sincerely yours, K.Rivkin Last edited by Rick; 30th January 2005 at 11:03 PM.

31st January 2005, 12:58 AM	#6
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	i considered about it before the bidding ended, but i voted for the "new and made in India" side being almost sure. Koftgari is an industry there. They dont carve the blade deep and they make the gold thin, so easier than old, and with much cheaper costs.Plus, the blade seems a very nice example of factory made damascus to me. Also, if you look carefully, you can see that the blade is not sharp. It has thick sides, covered with koftgari. Wouldnt be so if was handmade, but seen very often in factory produced blades as its easier that way. Finally, if it was antique with this condition, it should start from and go up to several thousand dollars easily. Last edited by erlikhan; 31st January 2005 at 01:08 AM.

30th January 2005, 07:34 PM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I think this is newly made. I've seen a fair number of similar, beautiful knives and swords in typically Indian styles with pattern-welded blades. This style looks Persian to my inexperienced eye.

30th January 2005, 10:57 PM	#4
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Dear Rivkin You mention an open auction I dont think that are both of indian origin. Sure the first one looks new but it maybe excelent preserved. If there is no organic material in a sword that stays indoors with perfect care for 100 years, who we can tell it is new or antique. I dont express opinion about the particular sword, but what is shining is not always (gold) or new

30th January 2005, 11:06 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	The fullering seems a little different . The work is very nice . The length of the forte seems unusual to me . .

31st January 2005, 03:24 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I tried to be polite and nonoffensive in opening this query, but I had exactly the same hesitations as the rest of the Forumites. I am virtually convinced that it is a modern creation. Guess the rest of the e-bayers thought the same....

31st January 2005, 06:56 AM	#8
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	After your opinions I checked it again more carefully. The most suspicious part is the lower (black) part of hilt. It should have some marks of age, if it was antique, because it touches the scabbard. The only exception I can imagine is that the owners last 100 years were not proud enough for it, to take it off and demonstrate it.

31st January 2005, 05:04 PM	#9
ksbhati Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Rajasthan, INDIA Posts: 25	Hi ! Ariel always seems to find the interesting pieces . I cant say for certain if this is a modern piece but it most likely is. The only comment I wanted to leave is that it is most definately a work of very skilled craftsman. I have seen very few with this degree of quality work. All the same, maybe it seems a bit expensive at GBP 400 but it must have costed a fair amount to produce. Good quality workmanship is not cheap here the regular stuff is.... !! Regards, Karni

31st January 2005, 11:39 PM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Oh yeah, I agree, newly made, though the koftgari is nicely done. Notice not a sign of wear anywhere (a poet and didn't know it ).