Rencong Rentjong for comments

russel · 15th April 2013, 12:03 AM

This little gem is arguably the jewel in the Crown of my modest collection.

kai · 15th April 2013, 10:50 AM

Hello Russel,

Congrats, looks like a neat, small example!

The scabbard is a later, non-traditional replacement. The rencong looks genuine and antique: blade looks Gayo to me; the hilt is a bit odd (not sure wether it got shortened/modified to repair a damage). Could you post close-ups of the tip of the pommel as well as upper and lower views of the bolster/base of grip area, please?

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 15th April 2013, 10:51 AM

Hello Russel,

very nice piece. Love the nice patinated ivory hilt. I think the scabbard is a later replacement. Can you please post dimensions?

Regards,

Detlef

kai · 15th April 2013, 10:53 PM

Hello Detlef,

It's a small one - check the inch ruler on the first pic.

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 16th April 2013, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Detlef,

It's a small one - check the inch ruler on the first pic.

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

maybe I wasn't awakened really, later I have seen it.

Regards,

Detlef

russel · 17th April 2013, 01:34 AM

Thanks for the comments guys.

I had always suspected that the scabbard was a later addition. Yes it is small: 8 3/4 inches overall, blade a fraction over 5 inches.

Here are additional images as requested.

Battara · 17th April 2013, 07:51 AM

I too think it would be considered as being gayo.

russel · 17th April 2013, 12:13 PM

Please forgive my ignorance, but may I ask what GAYO means?

Maurice · 17th April 2013, 04:05 PM

Gayo is an area in North Sumatra, where one of the bloodiest wars took place against the Dutch.

Have a look at this thread. I've had a similar, of which the handle was made of hippo ivory.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12088

Maurice

Sajen · 17th April 2013, 08:19 PM

Hello Russel,

I think your hilt is from elephant ivory.

Best regards,

Detlef

Sajen · 17th April 2013, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

...... the hilt is a bit odd (not sure wether it got shortened/modified to repair a damage). Could you post close-ups of the tip of the pommel as well as upper and lower views of the bolster/base of grip area, please?

Hello Kai,

when I look to the other pictures Russel have posted and the rentjong from Chregu in the link Maurice have posted it seems to my eyes that both hilts are very similar, what you think?

Regards,

Detlef

Jonno · 17th April 2013, 09:23 PM

The original area is Gayo or Gajo, like notes above. The scabbard looks modern to me.

Still nice piece.

Best,
John

www.atchin.nl
www.facebook.com/Keumpenie

kai · 18th April 2013, 12:51 AM

Hello Maurice,

Quote:

Gayo is an area in North Sumatra,
where one of the bloodiest wars took place against the Dutch.

While I usually tend to agree with you, I'd posit that it actually was the other way around...

Quote:

Have a look at this thread. I've had a similar, of which the handle was made of hippo ivory.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12088

Your "ex" is also special with that quite strongly curved hilt!

Regards,
Kai

kai · 18th April 2013, 01:04 AM

Hello Detlef,

Yup, elephant ivory (Schreger lines).

Quote:

when I look to the other pictures Russel have posted and the rentjong from Chregu in the link Maurice have posted it seems to my eyes that both hilts are very similar, what you think?

Yes, they are really close - they are apparently a simplified variant of hulu puntung/gerepung hilt (without the usual kink/bend and no added carvings to the pommel end). I agree that both ivory hilts appear to be genuine antique examples (the fit between the bolster and the base of the hilt seems better in Chregu's piece).

I asked for the additional pics since one has to be very cautious with Sumatran pieces these days: quite a few antique blades get pimped up with new ivory fittings.

Regards,
Kai

kai · 18th April 2013, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Here are additional images as requested.

Thanks, Russel!

Regards,
Kai

Maurice · 18th April 2013, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Maurice,

While I usually tend to agree with you, I'd posit that it actually was the other way around...

Hello Kai,

Yes you're absolutely right about that.
I wrote it down wrong looking it at that way!

Regards,
Maurice

asomotif · 21st April 2013, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

blade looks Gayo to me; the hilt is a bit odd (not sure wether it got shortened/modified to repair a damage).

Hello Kai,
Can you explain why you think the blade is gayo.

Best regards,
Willem

asomotif · 24th April 2013, 07:16 AM

Quote:

The original area is Gayo or Gajo, like notes above. The scabbard looks modern to me.
Still nice piece.
Best,
John

Hello John,

Why do you classify this rentjong as Gayo ?

Best regards,
Willem

kai · 24th April 2013, 08:13 AM

Sorry, glossed over your request, Willem!

I am still in the process of identifying/verifying indicators of origin and/or style/age/etc. for rencong; in many cases it's only a guestimate...

This blade looks Gayo to me because of its stout proportions; Albert puts it like this in his book: "Blades from Gayo have a somewhat less elegant line. They are a little straighter and more pointed." (AvZ, 2001)

Also Gayo rencong seem to utilize ivory more often than in Aceh; in Aceh horn hilts seem to be favored except for rare akar bahar pieces and some ivory hulu puntung with detailed carving.

Regards,
Kai

asomotif · 24th April 2013, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

This blade looks Gayo to me because of its stout proportions; Albert puts it like this in his book: "Blades from Gayo have a somewhat less elegant line. They are a little straighter and more pointed." (AvZ, 2001)

Also Gayo rencong seem to utilize ivory more often than in Aceh; in Aceh horn hilts seem to be favored except for rare akar bahar pieces and some ivory hulu puntung with detailed carving.

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

So it is a combination of blade and hilt on which you base the Gayo origin.

Imho most Gayo pieces we know are not only of stout proportions, but also of stout dimensions. this pieces is under 10 inches (ca.25 cms) overall length. Very small for a rencong even atjeh rencong.

Best regards,
Willem

Jonno · 24th April 2013, 10:22 PM

The hilt looks Gajo to me. The origine of the blade looks Atjeh.
(many blades where forged in Atjeh and exported)
The blades forged from Gaja looks more strait and are poor forged.

Anyway, it's not 100 % Atjeh or Gajo item.
The scabbed is modern and not original. (Makes identification more difficult)

Ivory was rearly used in Atjeh, you see them only in a few kind of weapons, like the Siwaïh, 2 kinds of rentjongs / rencongs and the sikin peuangan.
In Gajo you see much ivory on hilt and scabbards.

russel · 25th April 2013, 03:00 AM

Thanks for all the great information guys. A few more questions.

Any ideas about age? If the handle (hulu?) is a replacement, is it contemporary with the blade or of later manufacture?

Is it's small scale of any significance? It is certainly quite concealable.

Would it have been an item of quality at the time of manufacture, or were blades and hilts like this commonplace?

Thanks again for all the fantastic information.

asomotif · 26th April 2013, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonno

Ivory was rearly used in Atjeh, you see them only in a few kind of weapons, like the Siwaïh, 2 kinds of rentjongs / rencongs and the sikin peuangan.

John,
ivory rentjong in Atjeh, are these the 2 variations you mean

Maurice · 26th April 2013, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

John,
ivory rentjong in Atjeh, are these the 2 variations you mean

What a beauties Willem!
My feeling is that both are Atjeh types.
Have you checked Fisher?

Maurice

asomotif · 26th April 2013, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

What a beauties Willem!
My feeling is that both are Atjeh types.
Have you checked Fisher?
Maurice

Hello Maurice,
I did not check Fisher yet, but Imho these are both Atjeh.

But as John mentions specifically 2 type of rencong with ivory hilts, I just wanted to check if this is what he means.

Best regards,
Willem

Jonno · 26th April 2013, 09:33 PM

Hi Willem,
Yes, this kind.
There are a few more variations.

Btw, nice pieces.

Adriboy · 27th April 2013, 08:37 PM

thanks for all information about our traditional weapon

15th April 2013, 12:03 AM	#1
russel Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Tasmania, Australia Posts: 236	Rencong Rentjong for comments This little gem is arguably the jewel in the Crown of my modest collection. Attached Images

17th April 2013, 01:34 AM	#6
russel Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Tasmania, Australia Posts: 236	Thanks for the comments guys. I had always suspected that the scabbard was a later addition. Yes it is small: 8 3/4 inches overall, blade a fraction over 5 inches. Here are additional images as requested. Attached Images

26th April 2013, 09:33 PM	#26
Jonno Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 51	Hi Willem, Yes, this kind. There are a few more variations. Btw, nice pieces. Attached Images

27th April 2013, 08:37 PM	#27
Adriboy Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 19	thanks thanks for all information about our traditional weapon

15th April 2013, 10:50 AM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Russel, Congrats, looks like a neat, small example! The scabbard is a later, non-traditional replacement. The rencong looks genuine and antique: blade looks Gayo to me; the hilt is a bit odd (not sure wether it got shortened/modified to repair a damage). Could you post close-ups of the tip of the pommel as well as upper and lower views of the bolster/base of grip area, please? Regards, Kai

15th April 2013, 10:51 AM	#3
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hello Russel, very nice piece. Love the nice patinated ivory hilt. I think the scabbard is a later replacement. Can you please post dimensions? Regards, Detlef

15th April 2013, 10:53 PM	#4
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Hello Detlef, It's a small one - check the inch ruler on the first pic. Regards, Kai

17th April 2013, 07:51 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,220	I too think it would be considered as being gayo.

17th April 2013, 12:13 PM	#8
russel Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Tasmania, Australia Posts: 236	Please forgive my ignorance, but may I ask what GAYO means?

17th April 2013, 04:05 PM	#9
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,346	Gayo is an area in North Sumatra, where one of the bloodiest wars took place against the Dutch. Have a look at this thread. I've had a similar, of which the handle was made of hippo ivory. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12088 Maurice

17th April 2013, 08:19 PM	#10
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hello Russel, I think your hilt is from elephant ivory. Best regards, Detlef

17th April 2013, 09:23 PM	#12
Jonno Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 51	The original area is Gayo or Gajo, like notes above. The scabbard looks modern to me. Still nice piece. Best, John www.atchin.nl www.facebook.com/Keumpenie

24th April 2013, 08:13 AM	#19
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Sorry, glossed over your request, Willem! I am still in the process of identifying/verifying indicators of origin and/or style/age/etc. for rencong; in many cases it's only a guestimate... This blade looks Gayo to me because of its stout proportions; Albert puts it like this in his book: "Blades from Gayo have a somewhat less elegant line. They are a little straighter and more pointed." (AvZ, 2001) Also Gayo rencong seem to utilize ivory more often than in Aceh; in Aceh horn hilts seem to be favored except for rare akar bahar pieces and some ivory hulu puntung with detailed carving. Regards, Kai

24th April 2013, 10:22 PM	#21
Jonno Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 51	The hilt looks Gajo to me. The origine of the blade looks Atjeh. (many blades where forged in Atjeh and exported) The blades forged from Gaja looks more strait and are poor forged. Anyway, it's not 100 % Atjeh or Gajo item. The scabbed is modern and not original. (Makes identification more difficult) Ivory was rearly used in Atjeh, you see them only in a few kind of weapons, like the Siwaïh, 2 kinds of rentjongs / rencongs and the sikin peuangan. In Gajo you see much ivory on hilt and scabbards.

25th April 2013, 03:00 AM	#22
russel Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Tasmania, Australia Posts: 236	Thanks for all the great information guys. A few more questions. Any ideas about age? If the handle (hulu?) is a replacement, is it contemporary with the blade or of later manufacture? Is it's small scale of any significance? It is certainly quite concealable. Would it have been an item of quality at the time of manufacture, or were blades and hilts like this commonplace? Thanks again for all the fantastic information.