My eastern kindjal ;)

francantolin · 10th April 2020, 04:46 PM

Hello,

I just received this kindjal with silver sheath and niello,
small-medium piece: 51cm long overall.
Interesting with his small ''chain''

Do you think it's a russian kindjal ? an armenian- caucasian qama-kindjal ??,

I only found one stamp-signature-date ?

What do you think about his age-origin ?

Kind regards

francantolin · 10th April 2020, 04:53 PM

Here a date ( 91 ?? ) - signature ?
On the basis of the blade
and the chiseled scabbard

francantolin · 10th April 2020, 05:37 PM

Or read in this side :

Two arabic letters ?
'' Ta '' + '' Ha ''?

Initials of the owner ? the bladesmith ?

( + a picture of the nice horn hilt for share

)

Kind regards

ariel · 11th April 2020, 04:30 AM

A plank connecting handle bosses is seen often on Turkish kindjals. Decorative element on the scabbard do not look Caucasian to me.

francantolin · 11th April 2020, 08:51 AM

Hello Ariel,

Thank you for your comment !

So the ''flowers'' decoration scabbard can be ottoman/turkish ?

I can explain what I found a little weird:

when I looked for all silver/metal scabbard kindjal,
I only found pieces combined with all silver/metal hilts.

I saw this kind of hilt only associated with ''two chapes scabbards '' ( and leather or velvet in the middle )...

So I thought about a kindjal not associated with his original scabbard...

But the blade fits perfectly in and the reverse hilt decoration seems good too with the scabbard...

Kubur · 11th April 2020, 02:24 PM

First very nice piece
It's not Turkish and it's not rhino. IMHO

mariusgmioc · 11th April 2020, 03:47 PM

It is not Daghestani...

But that's about all I can say about it.

motan · 11th April 2020, 03:48 PM

Hi Fracatolin,
I am not an expert on Kindjals, but I have seen a few. This is a nice and authentic Kindjal, but it looks very Georgian to me, so not Ottoman or Persian. Especially the style of the decoration and mounting of the hilt, as well as blade all look like Tbilisi, late 19th c., but the latter is just a guess

francantolin · 11th April 2020, 09:59 PM

Hello and thank you everybody for your comments,

It's not easy to age and fix a kindjal origin especially without clear stamps-marks...,
( except the two arabic letters ?? has anybody an idea ?

... )

Always interesting to see the mix of cultural influences,
The reverse of the scabbard make me too think it's a caucasian
( georgian ? ) model.

I don't think it's rhino horn,
nice light brown horn with reflects and fibrous structure but no translucence at all...

I put other pictures of the hilt, who knows

!...

Ren Ren · 11th April 2020, 10:07 PM

The scabbard is really similar to those made in Tbilisi, but the “markharay” ornament on the back says loudly that this is the work of a master from Dagestan (I am not in this field

but I have the book “History of the Dagestan Ornament” by Paruk Debirov)
The subject is very unusual. I think that the Kindjal is older than its scabbard, which were made by special order at the very end of the 19th or at the beginning of the 20th century. The chain was added somewhere in another country, not in the Caucasus.

francantolin · 12th April 2020, 10:06 AM

Hello Ren,

Thank's a lot about your precious informations and about markharay flowers ornament !!
( I have to buy this book, only written in russian I believe ?)
about Dagestan origin, I found this one coming from an auction and said to come from Dagestan and pretty looks like...

Kind regards- Happy Eastern

francantolin · 12th April 2020, 10:19 AM

and this scabbard with the markharay floral ornament
( helpfull keyword !)

Ren Ren · 13th April 2020, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francantolin

Hello Ren,

Thank's a lot about your precious informations and about markharay flowers ornament !!
( I have to buy this book, only written in russian I believe ?)
about Dagestan origin, I found this one coming from an auction and said to come from Dagestan and pretty looks like...

Kind regards- Happy Eastern

Hello francantolin!
It's my pleasure!

The book “History of the ornament of Dagestan” by Paruk M. Debirov was published in Russian by the Moscow publishing house “Nauka” in 2001 (Парук Муртазалиевич Дебиров "История орнамента Дагестана", Москва, издательство "Наука", 2001). This is a very interesting book for ethnographers and art historians, but it does not have much information for connoisseurs of edged weapons.
In decorating Dagestan’s weapons, two main motifs of floral ornaments were used - “markharay” (meaning “climbing thicket”) and “tutta” (meaning “floral stem”).
Markharay is based on intersecting spirals. Tutta is a symmetrical ornament with a stem in the central line, from which branches with leaves and flowers extend.

Thank you for your congratulations, but this year the Orthodox celebrate Easter on April 19

With the Great Holiday of all Western Christians!

ariel · 14th April 2020, 03:34 AM

Francantolin,
There are several books in Russian dealing with Caucasian decorations.
I understand your linguistic difficulty, everybody on this Forum wishes to be able to read Arabic and Farsi:-)

I can only suggest buying a book by Kirill Rivkin on Caucasian weapons. It is in English and is full of detailed description of different styles. It is on Amazon.

10th April 2020, 04:46 PM	#1
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	My eastern kindjal ;) Hello, I just received this kindjal with silver sheath and niello, small-medium piece: 51cm long overall. Interesting with his small ''chain'' Do you think it's a russian kindjal ? an armenian- caucasian qama-kindjal ??, I only found one stamp-signature-date ? What do you think about his age-origin ? Kind regards Attached Images

10th April 2020, 04:53 PM	#2
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	Here a date ( 91 ?? ) - signature ? On the basis of the blade and the chiseled scabbard Attached Images

10th April 2020, 05:37 PM	#3
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	Or read in this side : Two arabic letters ? '' Ta '' + '' Ha ''? Initials of the owner ? the bladesmith ? ( + a picture of the nice horn hilt for share ) Kind regards Attached Images

11th April 2020, 08:51 AM	#5
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	Hello Ariel, Thank you for your comment ! So the ''flowers'' decoration scabbard can be ottoman/turkish ? I can explain what I found a little weird: when I looked for all silver/metal scabbard kindjal, I only found pieces combined with all silver/metal hilts. I saw this kind of hilt only associated with ''two chapes scabbards '' ( and leather or velvet in the middle )... So I thought about a kindjal not associated with his original scabbard... But the blade fits perfectly in and the reverse hilt decoration seems good too with the scabbard... Attached Images

11th April 2020, 09:59 PM	#9
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	Hello and thank you everybody for your comments, It's not easy to age and fix a kindjal origin especially without clear stamps-marks..., ( except the two arabic letters ?? has anybody an idea ? ... ) Always interesting to see the mix of cultural influences, The reverse of the scabbard make me too think it's a caucasian ( georgian ? ) model. I don't think it's rhino horn, nice light brown horn with reflects and fibrous structure but no translucence at all... I put other pictures of the hilt, who knows !... Attached Images

11th April 2020, 04:30 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	A plank connecting handle bosses is seen often on Turkish kindjals. Decorative element on the scabbard do not look Caucasian to me.

11th April 2020, 02:24 PM	#6
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	First very nice piece It's not Turkish and it's not rhino. IMHO

11th April 2020, 03:47 PM	#7
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	It is not Daghestani... But that's about all I can say about it.

11th April 2020, 03:48 PM	#8
motan Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Jerusalem Posts: 274	Hi Fracatolin, I am not an expert on Kindjals, but I have seen a few. This is a nice and authentic Kindjal, but it looks very Georgian to me, so not Ottoman or Persian. Especially the style of the decoration and mounting of the hilt, as well as blade all look like Tbilisi, late 19th c., but the latter is just a guess

11th April 2020, 10:07 PM	#10
Ren Ren Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 372	The scabbard is really similar to those made in Tbilisi, but the “markharay” ornament on the back says loudly that this is the work of a master from Dagestan (I am not in this field but I have the book “History of the Dagestan Ornament” by Paruk Debirov) The subject is very unusual. I think that the Kindjal is older than its scabbard, which were made by special order at the very end of the 19th or at the beginning of the 20th century. The chain was added somewhere in another country, not in the Caucasus.

12th April 2020, 10:06 AM	#11
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	Hello Ren, Thank's a lot about your precious informations and about markharay flowers ornament !! ( I have to buy this book, only written in russian I believe ?) about Dagestan origin, I found this one coming from an auction and said to come from Dagestan and pretty looks like... Kind regards- Happy Eastern Attached Images

12th April 2020, 10:19 AM	#12
francantolin Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 876	and this scabbard with the markharay floral ornament ( helpfull keyword !) Attached Images

14th April 2020, 03:34 AM	#14
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Francantolin, There are several books in Russian dealing with Caucasian decorations. I understand your linguistic difficulty, everybody on this Forum wishes to be able to read Arabic and Farsi:-) I can only suggest buying a book by Kirill Rivkin on Caucasian weapons. It is in English and is full of detailed description of different styles. It is on Amazon.