'Dha' blade restoration, are they laminated?

[Atlantia]

Hi friends
As work is damn slow (bloody economic downturn), I'm finding I have the time to steadily work through some 'projects' that have been around for years.
So, I'm going to rework this 'dha family' blade:

Anyway, the first job was to straighten it as it had a slight kink, and I was immediately surprised by how incredibly tough and rigid it was!
Managed to get it straight enough, and am now going to repolish it.
It does need repolishing, the edge is very dull and ragged.
First question is, are these laminated at all?
Is it going to be worth etching it at all?

[Mark]

It is not uncommon for them to be laminated, but I can't say from the photo whether this one is or is not. Polishing it should give a clearer idea.

[Atlantia]

Thank you Mark
I really shouldn't buy blades in need of so much work unless they are clearly 'worth the effort'.
Its a lot of work, hope its going to look good once its done !

Next problem is the handle!

Regards
Gene

[Atlantia]

Hi Y'all
I'm bumping this thread because the polishing is nearing completion and I'm still looking for a firm ID on this blade.
Essentially I'm going to need to make it a handle next and I'm absolutely clueless as to how it should look.

[Gavin Nugent]

Nice blade Gene, quite sought after in some circles too.

I passed a near complete example by a while ago, no scabbard but it had a pure Burmese look to it.
I am unsure what cataegory they fall under but they are a nasty looking chopper.
I'll see if the image is still on file, if not I'll make contact with another who may still have it on file.

Gav

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Nice blade Gene, quite sought after in some circles too.

I passed a near complete example by a while ago, no scabbard but it had a pure Burmese look to it.
I am unsure what cataegory they fall under but they are a nasty looking chopper.
I'll see if the image is still on file, if not I'll make contact with another who may still have it on file.

Gav

Oh Gav!
You're a star mate!!!!!!
Thank you so much

[Gavin Nugent]

I stand corrected Gene,

Thanks to James, a reader of the forum, I have received more exact detailing via email.

Some extact from the mail.

It is a meed or mead, it is the Thai - siam form of a kukri and it is from the lao thai people of the north of Siam
Some say they are related to the Tibetans and lower foothill tribal peoples from the himalaya and this is a slightly modified form of the kukri or at least thats where they originated from, some are shaped slightly different and have an upswept point and some are flat cutting edge but have a curved spine with a weighty mid to tip that is thicker and curved at the spine.

He notes many of them are very old as that yours is and probably early 19th century and northern Thai by the decoration.
He has also heard them called e nep and has seen them up to 2 feet long in the blade, the tribal guys in the north use them in everyday use..and the hilt is straight or slightly downcurving and usualy of hardwood and turned with a steel ferrule.

He also notes the tang is bent up the wrong way on yours, it should be curving very slightly downward and adds he has never yet seen one from Burma so I stand corrected.

Below is the image from the auction house some time back, quite a high end one from my perspective, great silver work and great ivory.

Gav

[Nathaniel]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi Y'all
I'm bumping this thread because the polishing is nearing completion and I'm still looking for a firm ID on this blade.
Essentially I'm going to need to make it a handle next and I'm absolutely clueless as to how it should look.

Why make a handle? I think it would look just as nice if you made a stand where you could appreciate the bare blade and tang

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Nathaniel

Why make a handle? I think it would look just as nice if you made a stand where you could appreciate the bare blade and tang

I also think it should be left as is. Display it well and have some notes on the item with it and it will stand alone and present well. They are seldom seen.
If you don't want it, I'll display it bare here :-)

Gav

[Atlantia]

Thanks chaps, and our very kind 'lurker' James.
Ah a mead!
I've never seen one like this before? Always the heavy ended hunting knife type. Even with this swollen bolo end it's still a mead is it?
I had no idea that there was a connection to the Khukri

Finally the mystery is solved!

Um.... you chaps wouldn't put a handle on it?
But it's sad without one It wants to be a knife again.

I'm seeing a HUGE VARIETY of handles on search images.

Some appear to be wood, some Ivory, some horn/antler.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by freebooter

I also think it should be left as is. Display it well and have some notes on the item with it and it will stand alone and present well. They are seldom seen.
If you don't want it, I'll display it bare here :-)

Gav

Gav and Nate,

Um, when you say left 'as is'........
Don't know if you saw my first thread about this blade about 2 years ago? I found it in a box of rusty 'impliments' at some market years and years ago.
It was bent and knocked about to hell.
I managed to straighten it to an acceptable level, and have now almost finished repolishing the surfaces (properly, by hand without altering the profile).
I'm going to try a light etch once the repolish is done.
I know that 'restoring' old blades is contoversial, would you have not done any of the above?

Best
Gene

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Gav and Nate,

Um, when you say left 'as is'........
Don't know if you saw my first thread about this blade about 2 years ago? I found it in a box of rusty 'impliments' at some market years and years ago.
It was bent and knocked about to hell.
I managed to straighten it to an acceptable level, and have now almost finished repolishing the surfaces (properly, by hand without altering the profile).
I'm going to try a light etch once the repolish is done.
I know that 'restoring' old blades is contoversial, would you have not done any of the above?

Best
Gene

Gene,

I think what you have done up to here is perfect.

Only my personal opinion...and opinions are like you know what, everyone has one, but I'd refrain from mounting it with a handle...though tentatively speaking, you may come across a period ivory and silver handle one day that may fit perfectly...then I would consider it...
Like I said before, I'd happily display it here at home as is in the cleaned state.

Gav

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Gene,

I think what you have done up to here is perfect.

Only my personal opinion...and opinions are like you know what, everyone has one, but I'd refrain from mounting it with a handle...though tentatively speaking, you may come across a period ivory and silver handle one day that may fit perfectly...then I would consider it...
Like I said before, I'd happily display it here at home as is in the cleaned state.

Gav

That picture is 'pre-cleaned' and just roughly straightened.
It's been repolished now mate.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

That picture is 'pre-cleaned' and just roughly straightened.
It's been repolished now mate.

Yeah I know from your posts that it is polished, no need to frown, cleaned and polished is ok, it is just the handle I would not make and fit.
I look forward to some images.

Gav

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Yeah I know from your posts that it is polished, no need to frown, cleaned and polished is ok, it is just the handle I would not make and fit.
I look forward to some images.

Gav

Soon mate
I'm 90% through the polish, just need to tidy and etch.
Best
Gene

[Nathaniel]

Here is a good reference of SEA utility blades shapes

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ht=thai+blades

Meed is the general Thai word for knife. It doesn't mean any specific type of knife....for instance you can kitchen knife a meed.

I would say the type of handle that would fit this type of blade would be a wooden or bone/ horn...kind of a rounded point short handle..simple silver ferrule....have to see if I can find a picture....

[Nathaniel]

Here is an example of what I think the handle should look like....sorry it's not a more clear picture...I can't remember where I pulled the image from.

[Nathaniel]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Gene,

I think what you have done up to here is perfect.

Only my personal opinion...and opinions are like you know what, everyone has one, but I'd refrain from mounting it with a handle...though tentatively speaking, you may come across a period ivory and silver handle one day that may fit perfectly...then I would consider it...
Like I said before, I'd happily display it here at home as is in the cleaned state.

Gav

Gene,

I think Gav & I are on the same page here...I think what you have done sounds good...just light polish & etch.

Here is something similar to what I think we are both suggesting...simple yet elegant...this way the focus is on the blade and nothing distracts from it.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Nathaniel

Gene,

I think Gav & I are on the same page here...I think what you have done sounds good...just light polish & etch.

Here is something similar to what I think we are both suggesting...simple yet elegant...this way the focus is on the blade and nothing distracts from it.

Very Tastful Nathaniel and well spoken, I like it!!

What do you think Gene?

Gav

[Atlantia]

Nathaniel,
Thats a lovely blade. I've used it as a guide and somewhat straightened the tang on mine (to approximately the same angle).

I do agree with you and Gav that it looks great displayed as you have it.....
But doesn't part of you want to feel the balance with the handle restored?
Swing it around... just a little bit?

Best
Gene

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Nathaniel,
Thats a lovely blade. I've used it as a guide and somewhat straightened the tang on mine (to approximately the same angle).

I do agree with you and Gav that it looks great displayed as you have it.....
But doesn't part of you want to feel the balance with the handle restored?
Swing it around... just a little bit?

Best
Gene

Go for it Gene, afterall these are just personal opinions and the item is yours.
I'd suggest asking others about using a resin to secure the handle that will keep it tight abnd secure and something that could be heated and removed should you ever desire to display it in the raw again.

Gav

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Go for it Gene, afterall these are just personal opinions and the item is yours.
I'd suggest asking others about using a resin to secure the handle that will keep it tight abnd secure and something that could be heated and removed should you ever desire to display it in the raw again.

Gav

Thats a good idea mate. Something non-permenant.
I've done a light etch, there are clear lamination lines and what looks to be a hardened edge. Can you have a looksee please? (and all other comments are welcome too)

[spiral]

lovely historic blade Atlantia with a clearly tempered edge & some lamination near the edge as well, I expect the patterns could be brought out further to show whether its an inserted laminated edge with softer backning envelope or not. That would be my guess based on the current photos.

This thread shows a later possible related British Indian army style.{or not as the case may be.} that may or may not be of intrest.

linky....

Spiral.

[Nathaniel]

Gene,

You did a great job...beautiful blade! Look at the brass inlaid along the spine...and now we can see the pattern on the back of the blade...what struck me is how it reminded me of my village Kukri...definitely supports what Gavin & James where saying above about the Kukri influence...you see in Burmese martial art, Bando, they use the Kukri...Burmese language is related to Tibetan and also influenced by Chinese....







As far as where or not to mount the blade...why not? As Gavin said, I would make sure you consult on how to do it and undo it. As far as a handle type...well, can't go too wrong...looking at knives in SEA, there is such a variety in handle type.

Spiral...thanks for the links...now I see I pulled that one photo from Puff's post!

[PUFF]

For this type of tang (push tang), you may use a piece of wood as hilt with a pipe clamp as a secure ferrule.

Some of makers here use this temporary hilt for checking their blade performance and balance.



The hilt were later replaced with the real one.


The recurved knives in Nathaniel's comment are Siamese, C17-C18. They were called Dao Ngum (recurved Dao sword). This might give you a hint of their Chinese origin . By the way, Dao and Dahb are interchangeable Siamese terms for backsword.

[Ferguson]

Very pretty blade Atlantia. I'm so glad you polished and etched it. The "soul" of the blade is now visible.
Steve

[tom hyle]

You've done very nicely for this blade. If you make it a handle and sheath it will be happy; ready to live.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Nathaniel

Gene,

You did a great job...beautiful blade! Look at the brass inlaid along the spine...and now we can see the pattern on the back of the blade...what struck me is how it reminded me of my village Kukri...definitely supports what Gavin & James where saying above about the Kukri influence...you see in Burmese martial art, Bando, they use the Kukri...Burmese language is related to Tibetan and also influenced by Chinese....




As far as where or not to mount the blade...why not? As Gavin said, I would make sure you consult on how to do it and undo it. As far as a handle type...well, can't go too wrong...looking at knives in SEA, there is such a variety in handle type.

Spiral...thanks for the links...now I see I pulled that one photo from Puff's post!

Thats a really nice Kuk!!
Whats the overall length?
Are you tempted to etch the blade? I'd have thought that was a prime candidate for some hidden treasures!
I love the decoration on it, reminds me of Xmas tinsel and garlands
In a nice way of course!

And thanks for the kind comments
As for the handle on the 'Mead'... Thats the beauty isn't it I'm kind of leaning towards a stag-horn carving like Chegru has (the 'What a Dha' thread).
I've got to look in the shed as I've got a few really old stag horns.
What are the chances I'll have a long enough straight-ish section?

Best
Gene

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by spiral

lovely historic blade Atlantia with a clearly tempered edge & some lamination near the edge as well, I expect the patterns could be brought out further to show whether its an inserted laminated edge with softer backning envelope or not. That would be my guess based on the current photos.

This thread shows a later possible related British Indian army style.{or not as the case may be.} that may or may not be of intrest.

linky....

Spiral.

Hi Spiral.

Thank you very much. The blade seems to have more obvious laminations towards the edge, but there are laminations visible (fainter) across the entire surface.
The edge looks almost like a Hamon line, is it produced in a similar way?

Thats an interesting link!!, I wasn't familiar with that knife. I'd rather like one muyself!!

Best
Gene

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by PUFF

For this type of tang (push tang), you may use a piece of wood as hilt with a pipe clamp as a secure ferrule.

Some of makers here use this temporary hilt for checking their blade performance and balance.



The hilt were later replaced with the real one.


The recurved knives in Nathaniel's comment are Siamese, C17-C18. They were called Dao Ngum (recurved Dao sword). This might give you a hint of their Chinese origin . By the way, Dao and Dahb are interchangeable Siamese terms for backsword.

Hi PUFF,

Thanks for your help
Thats a great way to size the handle perfectly, thanks.
Can you help with any more information about the blade that I have?
Regards
Gene