Weird sword for comments, pls.

migueldiaz · 3rd March 2010, 01:23 PM

a friend referred to me this strange-looking sword.

would anybody have any idea what kind of 'animal' this is?

VANDOO · 3rd March 2010, 06:14 PM

IT LOOKS A LOT LIKE SOME OF THE STRANGE LITTLE SWORDS REPRESENTED ON THE SOUVINEER PLACKS (WEAPONS OF MORO LAND). WHAT SIZE IS IT ?
AS TO GETTING IT IDENTIFIED IT IS A COMBINATION OF MORE THAN ONE TYPE BLADE WITH CUT OUT WORK AS IN A KRIS A BLADE TIP CLOSER TO A KAMPILLIAN OR ONE OF SEVERAL TYPES OF PARANG. THE HANDLE IS NOT TYPICAL OF ANY I KNOW AND LOOKS LIKE A TREE ROOT BUT IN SOME WAYS RESEMBLES A CRUDE KAMPILLIAN HANDLE. THERE IS QUITE A LOT OF VARIETY IN THE MONSTER HEAD TYPE PARANGS (BINANGON) SO IT IS LIKELY IT WOULD FIT THERE ABOUT AS WELL AS ANYWHERE.

DEFFINITELY A STRANGE BEASTY

Robert · 3rd March 2010, 06:22 PM

I too was watching this strange sword but like you have no idea of what it is.

Still it is a very nice item and hopefully will raise a good discussion.

Robert

laEspadaAncha · 3rd March 2010, 06:41 PM

The incredibly rare, ever-elusive Filipino-Frankensword?

kai · 3rd March 2010, 08:27 PM

I'm sure I saw a very similar sword years(?) ago but can't figure out where I put the pics/data (if any).

It sure is fancy enough to fit with the fantasy depiction of pieces from the Moro weapon plaques.

However, the elephant's face doesn't look Moro (nor Visayan/Luzon) to me - I'd guess at an Indonesian origin: Negara, Sulawesi, Sumatra...

Where's Michael when we need him?

Regards,
Kai

asomotif · 3rd March 2010, 11:29 PM

I would say it might be some Java / Sumatra like thing.

Battara · 4th March 2010, 02:32 AM

Yes I agree with Kai - does not look Philippines at all.

Rick · 4th March 2010, 02:40 AM

What about the three bars at the forte ?
Moro influenced mid Philippine Archipelago, N. Mindanao ??

Anyone ?

Not really getting a Sumatran gestalt here .

VANDOO · 4th March 2010, 03:14 AM

MY BEST GUESS IS STILL PHILIPPINE POST WW2.
BUT WITHOUT MORE INFORMATION ON THE ITEM SIZE, MONO STEEL OR FOLDED, DOES THE HANDLE HAVE A PIN THRU THE TANG, IS THERE A REAL PATINA ON THE HANDLE OR HAS IT BEEN SINGED IN A FIRE?
I THINK IT WAS INSPIRED BY LOOKING AT SWORDS ON A MORO WEAPONS PLACK AND PERHAPS THE MAKER FELT THE SIMI KRIS CARVEING MIGHT LOOK NEAT?. THE WORK APPEARS TO BE CRUDE AND I AM GUESSING MONO STEEL PERHAPS A TRUCK OR JEEP SPRING
IT COULD BE MORE RECENT MANUFACTURE IN INDONESIA BUT MOST OF THOSE I HAVE SEEN IN BALI HAVE BEEN FAIRLY GOOD COPIES OF TRADITIONAL FORMS.
I HAVE SEEN MORE STRANGE CRUDLEY MADE AS WELL AS WELL MADE FORMS RESEMBELING THIS ONE ORIGINATING IN THE PHILIPPINES OVER THE YEARS. AND THE CLOSEST I HAVE SEEN TO IT HAS BEEN ON MORO PLACKS. PERHAPS THE POSTER CAN GIVE US A BIT MORE INFO ON THE ITEM?.

Maurice · 4th March 2010, 08:31 AM

I happen to pick up one yesterday.
This one has a horn handle, decorations of the spine of the blade. Blade is 6 mm thick at the base.

VVV · 4th March 2010, 09:22 AM

Nice one Maurice, I haven't seen it with a guard before.
Here is mine which resembles the one Miguel posted.
I have had it for several years but still not been able to figure
out from where it is.
I agree that it looks Filipino in several ways but the elephant trunk
makes me suspect it to be Sumatran. But then the rest of the blade form
is maybe more like the North Peninsular Malay klewang?
The hilt, without the rest of the blade features, could be Moluccan.

My guess is still Sumatra or Malaysia but I do hope somebody solves
this riddle.

Michael

PS A hint? I found mine in Holland. I assume Maurice did too? And where was the one Miguel posted found?

Maurice · 4th March 2010, 09:41 AM

Hi Michael,

I (and others) was hoping for you to bump in.
Mine is collected in my neighbourhood indeed. The collector I got it from told me it was coming from Java.
My first intuition was malaysia, but that was just my intuition, based on the feeling I had about it.

About the hilt looking like moluccan style, I had the same feeling about. It reminded me immediately on the one Roy(ston) depicted a while ago in a thread.

I hope to figure it out, cause I don't think they are souvenirs.

Maurice

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Nice one Maurice, I haven't seen it with a guard before.
Here is mine which resembles the one Miguel posted.
I have had it for several years but still not been able to figure
out from where it is.
I agree that it looks Filipino in several ways but the elephant trunk
makes me suspect it to be Sumatran. But then the rest of the blade form
is maybe more like the North Peninsular Malay klewang?
The hilt, without the rest of the blade features, could be Moluccan.

My guess is still Sumatra or Malaysia but I do hope somebody solves
this riddle.

Michael

PS A hint? I found mine in Holland. I assume Maurice did too? And where was the one Miguel posted found?

VVV · 4th March 2010, 10:28 AM

Hi Maurice,

Have you noticed that you guard resembles the Sundanese variation of the Dutch hunting daggers?
But the elephant trunk doesn't look Javanese to me?

Michael

Maurice · 4th March 2010, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Have you noticed that you guard resembles the Sundanese variation of the Dutch hunting daggers?
But the elephant trunk doesn't look Javanese to me?

Yes, the so called Tjikeroe swords have also such guard.
However the guard at my piece is not that firm. I wouldn't be happy having my hand behind it when the opponent makes a heavy blow at this guard.

I guess it is a weird piece, but as we now have seen there are several of them. All with that strange "sumatran" look elephant trunk, "moluccan" style handle, "Malaysian" bladeshape, and the Javanese handguard........

Maybe when most of them acquired in the Netherlands, there is a possibility that they were made for the Dutch people back than to take with them as trophies?

migueldiaz · 4th March 2010, 12:23 PM

dear all,

many thanks for all the replies!

the blade is not mine, it's a friend's. thus i cannot really describe it in some more detail (as i have not seen it yet). but it's supposedly 24 inches (61 cm) long.

thanks again to all ...

p.s. - i never realized until now (after seeing the great pics above) that there is indeed after all such a blade form (a combination of diverse elements, like some sort of a bladesmith's experimental cut-and-paste job!)

VANDOO · 4th March 2010, 03:19 PM

NOW THAT WE HAVE MORE INFORMATION AND THERE ARE SEVERAL SPECIMINS THERE WILL BE A BETTER CHANCE OF FINDING WHERE THEY ORIGINATED. I HAD SUSPECTED IT WAS A ONE OF A KIND HOME MADE ITEM BASED ON MORO BUT WAS WRONG.

IT WOULD NOW APPEAR TO BE A WEAPON CARRIED BY SOME SPECIFIC GROUP AND LIKELY UNDER DUTCH CONTROL IN THE PAST. I THINK THEY WERE MADE FOR USE NOT JUST TO SELL AS SOUVINEERS. THE NUMBER OF ISLANDS SCATTERED OVER A LARGE AREA RULED BY THE DUTCH MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT TO FIND THEIR ORIGIN BUT IT IS A GOOD PLACE TO START. ITS REALLY NEAT TO FIND THERE IS MORE THAN ONE OF SOMETHING I HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE.

Sajen · 4th March 2010, 05:16 PM

Very interesting swords. The hilt remember to the hilt of my Halmahera sword and the "all-over-shape" of the blade look very similar to a Pade blade. Only the elephant trunk have a sumatran touch like Michael write before.

Detlef

Bill · 4th March 2010, 05:47 PM

Similarities of the sword are striking; as well the slight variations.
Appears to be multi-generations of craftsmanship from the same village.

VVV · 4th March 2010, 09:29 PM

Here are some more pictures of mine.
As you can see it has additional dot-motifs on the blade.

Detlef, I don't see how the blade looks like a Pade?

Michael

ThePepperSkull · 4th March 2010, 09:33 PM

perhaps the pommel can give us some insight into this partoicular blade's origins? Which culture/region of S.E.A. has blades of other styles with hollowed out pommels?

I look foreward to how this whole situations pans out. It was an interesting revelation to me when more than one of these came out of the woodwork and it ended up not being a one-of-a-kind.

Very interesting.

Sajen · 4th March 2010, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Here are some more pictures of mine.
As you can see it has additional dot-motifs on the blade.

Detlef, I don't see how the blade looks like a Pade?

Michael

Yes, you are right, after the second view it's not similar.

Maybe I am overworked in the moment.

3rd March 2010, 01:23 PM	#1
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Weird sword for comments, pls. a friend referred to me this strange-looking sword. would anybody have any idea what kind of 'animal' this is? Attached Images

3rd March 2010, 08:27 PM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	I'm sure I saw a very similar sword years(?) ago but can't figure out where I put the pics/data (if any). It sure is fancy enough to fit with the fantasy depiction of pieces from the Moro weapon plaques. However, the elephant's face doesn't look Moro (nor Visayan/Luzon) to me - I'd guess at an Indonesian origin: Negara, Sulawesi, Sumatra... Where's Michael when we need him? Regards, Kai Last edited by kai; 3rd March 2010 at 08:44 PM.

4th March 2010, 08:31 AM	#10
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,342	Another one! I happen to pick up one yesterday. This one has a horn handle, decorations of the spine of the blade. Blade is 6 mm thick at the base. Attached Images

4th March 2010, 09:22 AM	#11
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Nice one Maurice, I haven't seen it with a guard before. Here is mine which resembles the one Miguel posted. I have had it for several years but still not been able to figure out from where it is. I agree that it looks Filipino in several ways but the elephant trunk makes me suspect it to be Sumatran. But then the rest of the blade form is maybe more like the North Peninsular Malay klewang? The hilt, without the rest of the blade features, could be Moluccan. My guess is still Sumatra or Malaysia but I do hope somebody solves this riddle. Michael PS A hint? I found mine in Holland. I assume Maurice did too? And where was the one Miguel posted found? Attached Images

4th March 2010, 05:16 PM	#17
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,770	Very interesting swords. The hilt remember to the hilt of my Halmahera sword and the "all-over-shape" of the blade look very similar to a Pade blade. Only the elephant trunk have a sumatran touch like Michael write before. Detlef Attached Images

3rd March 2010, 06:14 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IT LOOKS A LOT LIKE SOME OF THE STRANGE LITTLE SWORDS REPRESENTED ON THE SOUVINEER PLACKS (WEAPONS OF MORO LAND). WHAT SIZE IS IT ? AS TO GETTING IT IDENTIFIED IT IS A COMBINATION OF MORE THAN ONE TYPE BLADE WITH CUT OUT WORK AS IN A KRIS A BLADE TIP CLOSER TO A KAMPILLIAN OR ONE OF SEVERAL TYPES OF PARANG. THE HANDLE IS NOT TYPICAL OF ANY I KNOW AND LOOKS LIKE A TREE ROOT BUT IN SOME WAYS RESEMBLES A CRUDE KAMPILLIAN HANDLE. THERE IS QUITE A LOT OF VARIETY IN THE MONSTER HEAD TYPE PARANGS (BINANGON) SO IT IS LIKELY IT WOULD FIT THERE ABOUT AS WELL AS ANYWHERE. DEFFINITELY A STRANGE BEASTY

3rd March 2010, 06:22 PM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	I too was watching this strange sword but like you have no idea of what it is. Still it is a very nice item and hopefully will raise a good discussion. Robert

3rd March 2010, 06:41 PM	#4
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	The incredibly rare, ever-elusive Filipino-Frankensword?

3rd March 2010, 11:29 PM	#6
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	I would say it might be some Java / Sumatra like thing.

4th March 2010, 02:32 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	Yes I agree with Kai - does not look Philippines at all.

4th March 2010, 02:40 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	What about the three bars at the forte ? Moro influenced mid Philippine Archipelago, N. Mindanao ?? Anyone ? Not really getting a Sumatran gestalt here .

4th March 2010, 03:14 AM	#9
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	MY BEST GUESS IS STILL PHILIPPINE POST WW2. BUT WITHOUT MORE INFORMATION ON THE ITEM SIZE, MONO STEEL OR FOLDED, DOES THE HANDLE HAVE A PIN THRU THE TANG, IS THERE A REAL PATINA ON THE HANDLE OR HAS IT BEEN SINGED IN A FIRE? I THINK IT WAS INSPIRED BY LOOKING AT SWORDS ON A MORO WEAPONS PLACK AND PERHAPS THE MAKER FELT THE SIMI KRIS CARVEING MIGHT LOOK NEAT?. THE WORK APPEARS TO BE CRUDE AND I AM GUESSING MONO STEEL PERHAPS A TRUCK OR JEEP SPRING IT COULD BE MORE RECENT MANUFACTURE IN INDONESIA BUT MOST OF THOSE I HAVE SEEN IN BALI HAVE BEEN FAIRLY GOOD COPIES OF TRADITIONAL FORMS. I HAVE SEEN MORE STRANGE CRUDLEY MADE AS WELL AS WELL MADE FORMS RESEMBELING THIS ONE ORIGINATING IN THE PHILIPPINES OVER THE YEARS. AND THE CLOSEST I HAVE SEEN TO IT HAS BEEN ON MORO PLACKS. PERHAPS THE POSTER CAN GIVE US A BIT MORE INFO ON THE ITEM?.

4th March 2010, 10:28 AM	#13
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hi Maurice, Have you noticed that you guard resembles the Sundanese variation of the Dutch hunting daggers? But the elephant trunk doesn't look Javanese to me? Michael

4th March 2010, 12:23 PM	#15
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	dear all, many thanks for all the replies! the blade is not mine, it's a friend's. thus i cannot really describe it in some more detail (as i have not seen it yet). but it's supposedly 24 inches (61 cm) long. thanks again to all ... p.s. - i never realized until now (after seeing the great pics above) that there is indeed after all such a blade form (a combination of diverse elements, like some sort of a bladesmith's experimental cut-and-paste job!)

4th March 2010, 03:19 PM	#16
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	NOW THAT WE HAVE MORE INFORMATION AND THERE ARE SEVERAL SPECIMINS THERE WILL BE A BETTER CHANCE OF FINDING WHERE THEY ORIGINATED. I HAD SUSPECTED IT WAS A ONE OF A KIND HOME MADE ITEM BASED ON MORO BUT WAS WRONG. IT WOULD NOW APPEAR TO BE A WEAPON CARRIED BY SOME SPECIFIC GROUP AND LIKELY UNDER DUTCH CONTROL IN THE PAST. I THINK THEY WERE MADE FOR USE NOT JUST TO SELL AS SOUVINEERS. THE NUMBER OF ISLANDS SCATTERED OVER A LARGE AREA RULED BY THE DUTCH MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT TO FIND THEIR ORIGIN BUT IT IS A GOOD PLACE TO START. ITS REALLY NEAT TO FIND THERE IS MORE THAN ONE OF SOMETHING I HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE.

4th March 2010, 05:47 PM	#18
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Similarities of the sword are striking; as well the slight variations. Appears to be multi-generations of craftsmanship from the same village.

4th March 2010, 09:29 PM	#19
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Here are some more pictures of mine. As you can see it has additional dot-motifs on the blade. Detlef, I don't see how the blade looks like a Pade? Michael Attached Images

4th March 2010, 09:33 PM	#20
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	perhaps the pommel can give us some insight into this partoicular blade's origins? Which culture/region of S.E.A. has blades of other styles with hollowed out pommels? I look foreward to how this whole situations pans out. It was an interesting revelation to me when more than one of these came out of the woodwork and it ended up not being a one-of-a-kind. Very interesting.