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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: lombok-indonesia
Posts: 66
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Dear forum ,
here i want to share one of my balinesse / lombok blade. your comments are wellcome. kind regards, mamat |
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 928
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Nice lar gansir pamor. Imo the blade seems a Java (or Madura) blade
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
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The pamor extends to the tip and it looks superficially applied on the iron/steel core. I am not sure that this is an old blade.
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,852
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Bali/Lombok?
Interesting. We learn something new every day. |
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#5 | |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Marseille - France
Posts: 73
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#6 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: lombok-indonesia
Posts: 66
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hi friends,
thank you for your comment. for Jean: you certainly could argue that this blade is not old, but of course I also know better because I got this blade from the original rural population of lombok and I am sure about the authenticity of this blade. to Alan: Yes it is...this is lombok / bali blade. thank you mamat |
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#7 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
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![]() If you are sure about the origin and age of your blade, what do you expect from the forum members then? Best regards Jean |
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#8 | |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: lombok-indonesia
Posts: 66
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thank you for your opinion ...you are right .. .. I send this picture to share and comments, it is my expectation .. but when you say that the blade is not old, I would have to argue. about the age of this dagger frankly I do not know, I just based estimates only. Thank you. Mamat |
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#9 | |
Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,098
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![]() Frankly, for me this blade raises a few red flags in terms of age and origin. Others here seem to feel the same way. These are, of course, just opinions, but they come from educated sources. Arguing seems pointless unless you can offer some solid provenance. ![]() |
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#10 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,248
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What I've heard from friends.. unethical dealers do purposely send new artificially aged keris to villagers, meant to trick those whom are seeking old keris in the village, hoping to find a 'sleeper'. Sometimes, these keris are left on purpose to develop rust and 'so-called' patina.. so that the outlook seems old and more believable when viewed by the seeker..
In my limited travels, I've come across some of these.. sometimes a third-party is used to promote the sale.. caveat emptor.. ![]() |
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#11 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Marseille - France
Posts: 73
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Does someone know any example of true ancient kerises with such twisted pattern ?
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#12 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,726
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Here pictures of a lar gansir blade from my collection, unfortunately relative worn out. Note that the pamor look upwards on one side and downwards at the other side.
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#13 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
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A recent specimen probably made in Madura.
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#14 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Marseille - France
Posts: 73
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Jean, Sagen, thank you.
Jean, recent but very nice blade. Sagen, do you know if this is a recent or "ancient" blade. In other words, my question was to know if twisted pattern is traditionally accurate. Regards. |
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#15 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,726
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the worn out pamor and the worn edges let me think that it is an old blade. The pamor lar gangsir is a pamor what you can find on old/antique keris blades. ![]() Regards, Detlef |
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#16 |
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,852
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Everybody seems to be focussing on whether this is an old --- or "older" --- blade, or a recent blade.
Similarly there seems to be intense interest in the pamor. Frankly, neither of these things grab my attention. When a blade looks like this I simply cannot tell from a photo, especially a photo on a computer screen , if it has any age or not. As for the pamor, this particular pamor is not uncommon in keris from a number of areas. There are several things which do interest me:- the gandik, the kembang kacang, the distance from the pesi to the sirah cecak, the form of the pesi, the form of the luk. If I look at these things I do not see either Lombok or recent Madura. I tend towards a classification of Madura pre WWII, but I am simply not prepared to give any firm opinion from photos.I doubt Lombok for a classification, but that is a hesitant doubt, it is not a firm statement. As I have already said:- it is an interesting blade. |
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#17 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,740
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![]() You have got a positive and controlled opinion, it was difficult to give one for most of us. Is there a sheath for this blade, it could give some clues also if it is an old one? Best regards Jean |
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