A question of Chinese Pole arms

[Gavin Nugent]

I am hoping someone can help me with a question I have about an old pair of Chinese pole arms I am considering. What is unual is that they are all wood, blades too. They are Kwan Dao in style and show a great amount of age. No images at this stage, but I am hoping someone out they can tell me something of the relevance of being all wood in construction.

regards

Gavin

[Andrew]

Training or decorative? Hard to say more without good pics.

[Gavin Nugent]

Here they are behind my WWII Dao and 19th Century sabre.

regards

Gav

[Philip]

The things are of a type of hafted weapon used for military purpoises in China since the Song Dynasty, and the official name has always been "yanyuedao" (reclining [i.e. crescent] moon knife). The term "kwandao" may be a regional dialectic term which has now morphed into "dojo-talk" used universally in today's martial arts world. Because "kwandao" and its variants are not reflected in the Chinese military literature, I avoid its use.

These all-wood versions in the pics are temple regalia. Looking closely at the decoration on the blades, and the work on the shafts, I tend to think that they are from Vietnam where the weapon is called "xien" or "yem nguyet dao" (the latter having the same literal meaning as the Chinese). I have seen an almost identically-constructed set of these wooden polearms, along with two handed sabers, in one of the sanctuaries of the Bach Ma Mieu (White Horse Temple) in Hanoi's Old Quarter.

Yanyuedao were also used in Korea, where they were called "unwoldo" (same meaning as Ch. and Viet.). The Okinawans also used them, their name for it escapes me at moment.

[josh stout]

Do you know anything about the word "kek" being a general word for Chinese pole arms? I have seen it in a 19th c. account of Southern Chinese weapons by an American author, and in Dreager's "Weapons and fighting arts of Indonesia". I suspect it is a dialect term of the Haka or similar ethnic group. Various kinds of pole arms are then combined with the word "kek" much in the way that varieties of saber are combined with "dao".

Within the martial arts community, Chinese Indonesians say "kwan dao", and use other dialect words for other weapons such as "shang to" for "shuang dao".
Josh

[Philip]

"Kek" is one of the southern Chinese dialectic terms meaning "halberd". The Cantonese say "gok". In Mandarin, it's "ge" ("ko" in the Wade-Giles romanization, and so used in many of the older books dealing with classical Chinese art and culture). In ancient times, the "ge" was a bronze dagger-axe, a sickle-like blade attached to a wooden pole.

By the Ming Dynasty, the "ge" had morphed into a polearm comprised of a spear, with a SINGLE crescent blade mounted points-out from two short lateral brackets springing out of the solid steel shaft between the spear blade and the pole-socket. It has an uncanny resemblance to the crescentic-bladed halberds used in Europe at about the time of the Spanish conquest of America, and later events. However, I doubt that there is Euro. influence on the "ge" since similar weapons are shown in Song Dynasty texts, albeit by different names.

A weapon as described above but with a PAIR of addorsed crescents,one on each side of the spear, is called "ji" (partizane). The name of the weapon is a homophone for "auspicious"; you see court paintings of royal progeny playing with toy partizanes and shooting off firecrackers on New Year's Day. A stand of "ji" represents someone who has attained the rank of an officer.

[ZhenjieWu]

Hi everyone
I am chinese. as I know, so called Kwan Dao means a dao used for chopping."Kwan" or "kek" is chinese pronunciation of chop, and "shuang" is chinese pronunciation of double.So when sb use "shuang" dao, it means he has two dao(usually almost the same style, material,weight).
Kwan Dao can be devided into 3 kinds roughly:
A) self-defence dao:usually no more than 1m long, one-edged blade, designed for slashing and sometimes thrusting. This kind of dao is also called "Yao" dao, means waist dao, because of the way how people carry them.
B) "Zhan Ma" dao(means horses killer dao):usually 1.5m long, one-edged blade, with a reletive long handle(about 50cm), designed mainly for the footman to slash enemy horseman's horse.
C)"Yan Yue" dao(pole weapon): usually several meters long, one-edged blade, with a reletive short heade(about 80cm), designed for strong man in battle,or honour guards to sabre-rattle. Slashing is the mail function of this kind of weapon.
Actually there are too many kinds of Dao in Chinese history, every dynasty or every state has its own style of dao or swords.

[Gavin Nugent]

Thank you for your input ZhenjieWu and thanks too Phillip and Josh for your help thus far, but guys but can anyone definitively say what these wooden polearms are?

thanks

Gav

[ZhenjieWu]

Maybe These images can help you.
Series one:

[ZhenjieWu]

These pictures(not mine) show how the wood pole were connected with the Dao. Click http://hfsword.com/bbs/viewthread.ph...B9%D8%B5%B6%2B for more information.

[josh stout]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Thank you for your input ZhenjieWu and thanks too Phillip and Josh for your help thus far, but guys but can anyone definitively say what these wooden polearms are?

thanks

Gav

Phillip's answer was quite definitive. I made a slight tangent to get a definition of the word "kek", and ZhengjieWu posted some nice pictures of what Chinese versions made for use would look like.

Just go back and read Phillip's first post and forget the rest.
Josh

[Gavin Nugent]

Thanks Josh, I got the temple regalia bit, but the answer is not so definate when it comes to region?

regards

Gav

[Gavin Nugent]

Thanks for your help fellow collectors, as mentioned by Phillip, I will put them down as Vietnamese unless someone indicates otherwise in the future. ZhengjieWu, the polearm images you posted have certainly helped and have also revealed some insight to another mystery dao that I was interested in.

very best regards

Gav